Re: Zireen and Sangari (was Re: Star Trek)

Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:

>>>Are Proto-Zireen and Proto-Sangari reconstructible, or are these too too
>>>far
>>>remote in the past?
>>
>>As with humans, writing was invented long after languages had
>>diversified. Additionally, much of the early Zireen history has been lost.
>
>
> That doesn't answer my question.  I didn't ask for written attestations of
> Proto-Zireen or Proto-Sangari; I asked whether they can be *reconstructed*
> by means of the comparative method (as Proto-Indo-European has been
> reconstructed), or whether they are so far back in the past that they no
> longer can be reconstructed (as Proto-Human).  But I guess that the latter
> is the case.
Right, I should have been more explicit about that. Zireen written
history goes back only a few thousand years (not much more than 7,000),
and the comparative method might get you a few more thousand years
beyond that, but some branches have been separated for so long that
there's nothing for the comparative method to work with. Probably the
Sangari records will allow a better reconstruction of early Sangari
protolanguages, but there will come a point when you can only
reconstruct so far, and the earliest branches are lost.

A few specific examples from Zireen languages:

         Virelli Vizaki Zharranh Jaradh   Yasaro  Simik
one     hú      a      žar      jar      àu      vá:
two     zá      ti     kɭiĵu    griizhiu nhúlu   zain
three   néri    fhei   tiva     t'iiwa   làku    yaika
four    ņa'i    nyy    ziđa     ziitha   čę́pi   xu:
five    séða    šia    niʈa     diidra   tìa     íx
yellow  ziðe    larii  sraĵi    strayii  rúsu    zyè:
blue    ķúhri   kut    dʐoli    drului   kìva    kyá:
sun     ímis-t  rengi  viĵa     yiizha   míra    cê:
ice     kaļút-  vi'a   keŧa     kith'a   čétē    xeš
dragon  miamák- sơma   waral    waral    lírit   nyâ:
head    kavá-   nii    ruki     ruukui   tą́pa    yain
arm     uhi-    katy   miņa     miidha   čáni    klà:
eat     kíma    t'unu  miķa     muidha   čâŋa    zàc
sleep   julu    mevi   stiɭa    stiira   thùną   cèi

Other than Jaradh and Zharranh, there aren't many obvious sets of
related words in these languages. A few that look similar (Virelli séða
/ Vizaki šia, Yasaro kìva / Simik kyá:) could be related, or just
coincidentally similar.

Tentatively, I've settled on 200,000 years as the point of separation of
the Sangari and Zireen populations. I put a chart up on FrathWiki so
I'll have something to refer to.

http://wiki.frath.net/Azirian_Phylogeny