Theiling Online    Sitemap    Conlang Mailing List HQ   

Re: Georgian consonant clusters and syllables

From:Tristan McLeay <zsau@...>
Date:Friday, January 16, 2004, 1:25
On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Paul Bennett wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:54:21 +0100, Andreas Johansson <andjo@...> > wrote: > > > Quoting Christophe Grandsire <christophe.grandsire@...>: > > > >> En réponse à Andreas Johansson : > >> > >> > >> >I can pronounce that without any epenthetics, but I cannot do an "r" > >> between > >> >two consonants of higher sonority without it sounding like a syllable > >> peak. > >> > >> Strange. I have no problem with that. > > > > I can't seem to do it with any "liquid" consonant. > > Quasi-related to a different thread: I can only make liquids asyllablic if > I consciously make them short. It seems length more than sonority defines > for me what is a peak and what isn't. Stops, being of inherently "very > short" length (barring implosives, geminates, and other odd fish) most > naturally make syllable boundaries.
I can seem to make anything I like syllabic or non-syllabic, as long as we've had something syllabic in a recent-enough time. For example, as long as there's an onset, I can make a (geminate) stop (unvoiced easier than voiced) syllabic if I want (indeed, depending on the register and mood I'm in, sometimes words beginning with C@C'V, C=unvoiced stop, C'=different UV S., V=stressed vowel are more like CC'=V IMIdiolect). Or that example Georgian word, if I pronounce it as written in as few syllables as possible, I get [fpr_0ts)] (or perhaps it's [], I can't quite tell). Certainly using things like (non-syllabic) [j], [w], [l], [r], [r\] etc. without following vowels causes me no trouble [jn7u\]?. (Though this only works when there's agreement in voicing. If there isn't, I'll probably have an epenthetic schwa as I change from voiced to unvoiced.) At least, that's my impression and I could be being confused
> For other sounds, I have to make more > and more conscious efforts to keep a sounds short as they increase in > sonority in order to keep my mind from automatically hearing them as > syllablic. Indeed, one of the key distinctions to my ear between /j/ and > /i/ is one of length, and also (I think) stressedness. Maybe > subphonemically, I have about four length grades, and at least three stress > grades. It's a timing thing. > > I really wish I had the book-learnin' to back up what I'm trying to say.
Indeed. -- Tristan