Re: Georgian consonant clusters and syllables

On Thu, 15 Jan 2004, Paul Bennett wrote:

> On Thu, 15 Jan 2004 21:54:21 +0100, Andreas Johansson <andjo@...>
> wrote:
>
> > Quoting Christophe Grandsire <christophe.grandsire@...>:
> >
> >> En réponse à Andreas Johansson :
> >>
> >>
> >> >I can pronounce that without any epenthetics, but I cannot do an "r"
> >> between
> >> >two consonants of higher sonority without it sounding like a syllable
> >> peak.
> >>
> >> Strange. I have no problem with that.
> >
> > I can't seem to do it with any "liquid" consonant.
>
> Quasi-related to a different thread: I can only make liquids asyllablic if
> I consciously make them short. It seems length more than sonority defines
> for me what is a peak and what isn't. Stops, being of inherently "very
> short" length (barring implosives, geminates, and other odd fish) most
> naturally make syllable boundaries.
I can seem to make anything I like syllabic or non-syllabic, as long as
we've had something syllabic in a recent-enough time. For example, as long
as there's an onset, I can make a (geminate) stop (unvoiced easier than
voiced) syllabic if I want (indeed, depending on the register and mood I'm
in, sometimes words beginning with C@C'V, C=unvoiced stop, C'=different UV
S., V=stressed vowel are more like CC'=V IMIdiolect). Or that example
Georgian word, if I pronounce it as written in as few syllables as
possible, I get [fpr_0ts)=kv.ni] (or perhaps it's [kv=.ni], I can't quite
tell). Certainly using things like (non-syllabic) [j], [w], [l], [r], [r\]
etc. without following vowels causes me no trouble [jn7u\]?. (Though this
only works when there's agreement in voicing. If there isn't, I'll
probably have an epenthetic schwa as I change from voiced to unvoiced.)

At least, that's my impression and I could be being confused

> For other sounds, I have to make more
> and more conscious efforts to keep a sounds short as they increase in
> sonority in order to keep my mind from automatically hearing them as
> syllablic. Indeed, one of the key distinctions to my ear between /j/ and
> /i/ is one of length, and also (I think) stressedness. Maybe
> subphonemically, I have about four length grades, and at least three stress
> grades. It's a timing thing.
>
> I really wish I had the book-learnin' to back up what I'm trying to say.
Indeed.

--
Tristan