Re: Vowels?

>From: Andreas Johansson <and_yo@...>
>Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 09:41:33 -0500
>
>Christophe Grandsire wrote:
>>En réponse à John Cowan <cowan@...>:
>>
>>>   I believe this is also Mandarin /r/.
>>
>>I'd been told that Mandarin /r/ was the best example of a retroflex
>>approximant: [r\`]? It is not retroflex?
>
>Perhaps there is considerable dialectal variance within Mandarin regarding
>this? I checked two (Swedish) encyclopaedias, one of which consistently
>renders the Mandarin "r" as [Z], while the other equally consistently
>renders it as [r] (presumeably indicating a trilled retroflex or alveolar
>r,
>but the phonetic transcription used is quite broad).
>
>                                                      Andreas
>
Standard Beijing Mandarin is most very definitely a retroflex and not at all
trilled.  However, most Mandarin speakers do not speak Standard Beijing
Mandarin, at least not as their home dialect.  Here in Taiwan, where the
native language of most people isn't even any form of Mandarin at all, but a
dialect of Taiwanese or Hakka, you get all kinds of strange realizations fo
the "R".  I've heard everything from the standard [r\'] to [Z] to [z] to
[dZ] to Lord only knows what else.  It's a very foreign phone to Taiwanese.

Speaking of weird phonemes.  Does any one know the strict phonetic symbol
for this bizarre Taiwanese "L".  It is very un-L-like to me.  It seems a
strange choice for writing, but it's NOT a "D" either.  'Tis weird.

Adam

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