Re: logic vocabulary

----- Original Message -----
From: "# 1" <salut_vous_autre@...>


>>>(dZaz)     Noun         Adjective          Transitive verbs Intransitive
>>>verbs
>
>>>Stative    woman   typic of women   to make a woman of   to become a
>>>woman
>
>>>Active       man       typic of men        to make a man of       to
>>>become a man
>
>
>>>It is not discrimination or something it is only for the opposition
>
>
>>Discrimination involves opposition. But in my almost 66 years of sojourn
>>in
>>this life, most of the women I've met have been pretty active. But I can
>>think of few stative men I've come across!
>
> I've just said it is not discrimination! I just want to create an
> opposition.
>
> Would you prefer I make "dZaz" means man and "TSas" means women?
I think the issue is whether you want to assign "becoming a man" to the
"active" category, and "becoming a woman" to the "stative" category, because
"active" and "stative" already carry the burden of sexist thinking from time
immemorial, if you care about that kind of thing.  If you don't care, then
that's fine by me.  But to "become a man" seems to some people like a
promotion:  HEY! Moving from STASIS into ACTION!!  And to "become a woman"
sounds like dropping down a rung.  But heck, it's your conlang.  And I do
know that these terms active and stative are completely linguistic and in a
sense artificial, and only seem to carry sexist implications if they are
aligned with male and female.  To be sure, Teonaht is not without its
hierarchic terminology.  The volitional and the non-volitional are described
by terms that mean "Self" and "Shadow."  So "self" is better than "shadow"?
On a higher rung?  The Teonim like to think, rather, that self cannot exist
without its reflection, its shadow.  Nor can the shadow exist without the
thing it trails.

> I decided to give the stative to the women because I think that Voiced
> consonants sounds more gentle that voiceless ones...
Ooh, worse! :)  So you think we gals are gentle, huh? :)   bwah hah hah hah
hah!!!

No, really; it's a little like arguing as we did a hundred years ago that a
"male" rhyme is "male" because it ends on a STRONG, STRESSED syllable --man!
can!-- and a female rhyme "gently" lets us down with a stressed and
unstressed syllable--lover, hover, cover.   I much prefer the carpenter's
terms "male" and "female" SCREW to this kind of sentimental essentialism of
masculinity and femininity.  At least the carpenter's terms match real
anatomy instead of perceived and notions of feminine "gentleness."

> I don't want it to be called Stative and Active I just want an simple
> opposition that would unite words that have a near meaning like "to look"
> and "to see" or "man" and "woman"
...
> The only mistake I made is to call it Stative ands active but I don't want
> it to be called Class 1 and Class 2 but if it causes trouble here, maybe
> i'll decide to call it like this.
If you need to assign masculine things and feminine things to two opposite
but complementary categories, why not give up these common linguistic terms
and invent your own, maybe something that corresponds loosely with the Hindu
notions of the Lingam and Yoni?  Or terms that suggest active qualities of
both sexes?  Like "flame" and "wind"?  (which could describe either gender,
actually) You can be as creative as you want with your terminology,
especially if you're after "originality," as you have so often expressed in
your posts.  Maybe, thinking outside the envelope a bit, you could take
feminine and masculine things and divide them between the active and the
stative.  That way you could possibly oppose feminine things to feminine
things: like girl to woman.  Young woman and old woman.  Ignorant woman and
wise woman.  And masculine things to masculine things.

> Class 1: Active neutral words / masculine things and persons
> Class 2: Stative neutral words / feminine things and persons
That still replicates the same problem.  You've still got "stative" and
"active" in there opposing masculine and feminine things.  Okay, I've pulled
your leg enough for one evening, so you go have a great holiday.  And good
luck on your conlang!

Sal Gal
Al eskkoat ol ai sendran, rohsan nuehra celyil takrem bomai nakuo
"My shadow follows me, putting strange new roses into the world"
 http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/whatsteo.html