Re: Láadan and woman's speak

Peter Clark wrote:

<snip>

>         But perhaps that is why some of us conlang, to provide those
> missing words. Enamyn "tolcr" suits quite nicely. It fits the
> calm, quite, but tensed excited feeling that I wish to describe. However,
> when I consider this word, I understand that English's lack of this word
> is not exactly a handicap; I can and have explained it before, but because
> there is not a word for it does not mean that I am somehow crippled by
> this lackage. What Kramarae seems to be suggesting (I can't say for sure,
> having never read the book) is that women are _severly_ crippled,
> handicapped even, by the fact that they cannot express themselves
> adequately. (Heck, I feel that way every day--but then, that's because I
> am surrounded by Russians. :) So does this theory run along the same lines
> as saying: "Because I cannot speak Russian fluently, and because I do not
> know enough Russian words to adequately convey what I wish to convey, I am
> handicapped in my ability to express myself." Comments? Women?
I think providing those missing words can definitely be a major plus in
conlanging -- not necessary the reason I decided to make languages, but
absolutely something I take advantage of.


>         Hmm--I recall reading somewhere about some southern African tribes
> (Zulu or relates) where the women have a seperate "dialect" or extension
> to the common language. IIRC, the theory behind its development was that
> this extension began as something of a code, something that the menfolk
> would not understand. And of course, on the other side of the chromosome
> divide, there is the men's language in Australia among...I forget which
> tribe. Curses--I can't remember any names today. Saturday. Although if my
> faulty memory still serves, there are only about 250 words in the men's
> language, which makes it more of a code or extension than a
> language. Anyone know the grammar?
Two of my languages, Nevokányi and Khundrûzn are conculturally meant to
be spoken in one community, the former by women and the latter by men --
both sexes can, however, understand both languages.  For example, if a
man is speaking to a woman he will use K. and she will use N.  If a
woman assumes a position of leadership, especially as a politician, she
will sometimes speak K., and when a man speaks with his wife/lover or
with children he will probably speak N.  The differences aren't really
in vocabulary, though.  Although the two languages have completely
different grammars, the phonology is what makes one for guys and one for
girls -- one is pretty harsh sounding while (to me at least) the other
is soft and pretty.

>         By the way: is anyone who has read the description of Láadan
> slightly miffed at how she describes "lh" (which, from the description,
> sounds like an exagerated lateral fricative, like Welsh "ll") as "not
> especially pleasant to hear"?
Yes, I remember reading that a while ago and wondering why someone would
make a comment like that, it seemed quite curious.

Nicole