Re: verbs = nouns?

From: "H. S. Teoh"

From: Marcus Smith:

> > The crucial question is whether "le" can be used with nouns? I don't
know
> > any Mandarin, but would it be possible to say the equivalent of "I
student
> > le."?
No.

> >If not, then "adjectives" pattern with verbs rather than nouns,
> > suggesting that they are a subclass of verb.
> But why can't "le" be a particle that can be used with more than one class
> of words?
Because it's a verbal particle.

> As for whether it can be used with nouns, I just remembered a pathological
> twist to one of the words someone mentioned earlier in this thread: che1
> (car) actually *can* be used as a verb, now that I think about it. I'm not
> sure how to translate the verb che1, but it occurs in the idiom "che1 ta4
> pao4", meaning, to exaggerate or brag without basis. (Literally, it means
> something like "driving/pushing(?) a big cannon", with a sarcastic nuance,
> like "yeah sure, and you drive a big tank too".)
Okay, okay. I looked up "che1" and it is also a verb meaning "to transport
by cart". I haven't heard "che1 da4 pao4" before, but then, to learn slang
or idiomatic expressions often meant just picking it up from TV or the
newspaper. Using it in conversation with the natives would then turn to
"Where did you learn THAT!!!??? That's not standard!"


> So "le" can be used with "che1"... but of course, it still seems to apply
> only to verbs and adjectives. So perhaps the stative verb explanation
> really does make sense after all. (Of course, I could claim that "le" in
> such cases simply modify the implicit copula, but I've trouble believing
> myself for that one :-P)
That would mean that sentences like "*Ta1 shi4 le" are okay, and that sounds
very weird to me. If you say this is an okay utterance, then I'm going to
argue that what is implicit is not the copula but the predicate noun or
adjective. Be forewarned.

> OTOH, if adjectives *were* stative verbs, how
> would one explain using a verb with it? E.g.:
>         che1 pien4 hong2le
>         "The car turned red."
> compared with:
>         che1 hong2le
>         Same meaning, less emphatic. ("Car has reddened"?)
Resultative verbs? See later postings.

Kou