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Re: TRANS: a child's exercise

From:Padraic Brown <pbrown@...>
Date:Sunday, September 12, 1999, 2:12
On Sat, 11 Sep 1999, FFlores wrote:

> andrew <hobbit@...> wrote: >=20 > > Question I forgot to ask: Because the TRANS was written by a 10-year-ol=
d I
> > deliberately translated it without using the past definite tense. So I > > want to put a question to the Romanophones on this list; would this be > > normal? Or would it be expected that a pupil in their 4th or 5th year =
at
> > school would know how to use the past definite (or historic) tense in > > their written work? >=20 > What do you mean by 'past definite'? I'll try to guess... > Spanish has two pasts, _pret=E9rito indefinido_ and _pret=E9rito imperfec=
to_.
> I guess your 'past definite' is the _indefinido_, in spite of the name: >=20 > pret. indefinido: _fuimos de viaje_ 'we went on a trip' > pret. imperfecto: _=EDbamos de viaje_ 'we were (going) on a trip' >=20
"bamos"? :) I think your analysis is correct. Brithenig also has compound tenses used somewhat like Spanish, I gather (which Kernu doesn't have).=20
> If that's the meaning of your past definite, then I would say no, > in principle. Spanish-speaking children know the difference and use > what fits best. What past did you use in Brithenig? I guess the=20 > imperfect one, right? In any case, how you use it depends on the=20 > idiosyncracies of Brithenig speakers. In Spanish at least, using > _=EDbamos de viaje_ for the completed action instead of _fuimos de > viaje_ would be very strange even for a child.
Andrew used the imperfect, I think. I tend to agree with your position on learning which tenses to use early on, though.=20
> Something a child *could* do is to use present tense for everything > when telling a story (just as in English and I'm sure many other langs),
This is what happened in the Kernu version, though not 100%. The writer alternates between present and perfect, but I think avoids the imperfect altogether. There's a pretty clear distinction between imperfect and perfect; and I think children would learn right usage early on. Certainly by 5th grade (even in the US!) one already has a good idea on which tense to use. I don't really think it's realistic to think children can't figure out which to use. Padraic.
> except for the first sentences while s/he sets the scenario. > I haven't done that in Drasel=E9q... I'll have to think about it. >=20 >=20 > --Pablo Flores > http://draseleq.conlang.org/pablo-david/ >=20