Re: Back to the Future (was: I'm back, sort of)

On Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 01:54 , John Cowan wrote:

> Ray Brown scripsit:
>
>> "ain't" had been the mark of upper class aristo English for a few
>> centuries;
>
> Indeed.  The oldest pron. is probably [Ant] from "are not", parallel to
> "aren't" itself.  In North America the usual pron. is [ejnt], and it's
> probably *the* most stigmatized non-obscene/profane linguistic form
> in use,
..and here. But I find it odd that our Victorian middle classes were quite
happy to accept "won't" even tho it ain't a contraction of "will not", but
eschewed the equally old and established "ain't".

> though a tad less so when it means "am not" as opposed to
> "are not" or "is not", there being no contraction of the relevant kind
> available for "am not".  I have seen "amn't" in writing in books written
> in England, but find it hard to believe that anybody ever actually said
> that.
I've heard it - from a pedantic Scots woman  [amn=t]

>> it retreated among "the lower orders" because of the pretensions of the
>> 19th century bourgeoisie, but never disappeared.
>
> I forget who it was that was explaining that English class accents are
> a bell curve, with pronunciation (not vocabulary) shifting back toward
> 18th-century norms the further one moves away from the middle accent.
>
> It was definitely JRRT who was explaining to the American soldier on the
> train that RP was a middle accent, not an upper one,
'tis true.  The upper classes happily went huntin', shootin' and fishin'.
It was
the pedantic middle classes who insisted that the final consonant should be
/N/.

> in the course of
> which he uttered the memorable comparison of American to "English wiped
> with a dirty sponge".
   :)

>> "..there are Ents and things that look like Ents but ain't, as you might
>> say."
>
> Ho!  Another minor mystery cleared up -- add this one to the "donkey's
> years" that you explained yonks ago.
You're welcome.  I was brought up in the rural south where [Ent] was still
-
and I hope _is_ still - the normal pronunciation.

>> Dunno how old "dunno" is, but it was certainly already in common currency
>> this side of the Pond 50 years ago or more.
>
> Where does the stress fall?  More common here in allegro speech is
> ["AId@now].
Same stress here if the pronoun's included.  Often in answer to a question
it's
simply ["dVn@w].
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On Wednesday, September 24, 2003, at 02:31 , Isidora Zamora wrote:

[snip]
> My mother frequently skips her subject pronouns in written notes.  Always
> has.  (See, I just dropped a subject pronoun.)  It drives my husband
> slightly nuts, but I'm used to it.
Good for your mother!  Often do it myself - and not just in notes  :)

Ray
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