Re: GROUPLANG: cases (was: noun and verb roots)

Nik Taylor wrote:
>
>Pablo Flores wrote:
>> Case 4:
>> The dog BIT me
>> (predicate)
>
>Wait a sec!  BIT is the verb here.  How can it have a case?
If you remember well, we don't distinguish verbs from nouns.
By predicate-case-marking a root, you transform it into a "verb".
The possible confusions here are avoided if you gloss a word
with all of its possible meanings according the case.

>> Case 5:
>> THE RED dog bit me
>> (determinant) (also serves as genitive/possessive)
>
>What?  RED is an adjective, so are you saying that the case for genetive
>also makes nouns into adjectives?  In that case, is it really a case and
>not a derivation?
Look at Mathias's post and my response. The attribute (determinant/modifier)
case can be used for possessives, qualities, and general genitive functions.
The word would be "red colour (noun), red (attributive), to be red (predicate)".


>> Case 6:
>> A RED dog bit me
>> (modifier) (also serves as genitive)
>
>So, what's the difference between these two?
Now they are one. But the difference was supposed to be the difference
between a simple modifier/qualifier that tells you a bit more about a
thing, and the determinant, which tells you which thing it is. "A red dog"
is just "a dog", but "The red dog" does not only tell you that the dog is
red, but it's using that as a determinant feature: not any dog, but the
red one.

>
>And what about dative or instrumental?  How about local cases?
>
See Mathias's post.

"I give you the book"

ag-I abs-book pred-give-susp, abs-you pred-have

"I give the book, you have [it]"


(I like the idea of suspensive verbs. Is this what you had in mind,
Mathias? Even if it's not, I've made up a fine structure, haven't I? :)


Instrumental might be a bit mixed with causative. If you say

caus-I ag-hammer pat-finger pred-smash

"I cause the hammer to smash the finger"
that's more like
"I hammer the finger with the hammer"


--Pablo Flores