Theiling Online    Sitemap    Conlang Mailing List HQ   

Re: GROUPLANG: cases (was: noun and verb roots)

From:Mathias M. Lassailly <lassailly@...>
Date:Sunday, October 18, 1998, 0:08
Pablo wrote :
> I'll mention all the cases we have been dealing with so far, > and you tell us what you call them: >
Depends whether you are in a AP, NA or EA system so I pick our 'mixed' system :
> Case 1: > THE DOG bit me > (agent)
erg/abs-dog pat-me bite
> > Case 2: > The dog bit ME > (patient)
abs-dog pat-me bite erg-dog pat/abs-me bite depending whether root 'bite' is result or state.
> > Case 3: > HE sees us > (undergoer?)
abs-he pat-we see abs-he age-we image
> > Case 4: > The dog BIT me > (predicate)
predicate is not a case in ergative or nominative systems, only in agent/patient system.
> > Case 5: > THE RED dog bit me > (determinant) (also serves as genitive/possessive)
You need de-compose into determinant, relative and case. Determination lies on 'dog', not on 'red'. Relative integrates the predicate 'to be red' into 'dog' : dog is red > 'dog's redness' or 'a red dog' abs/att-dog red = the dog is red dog mu-red-abs/att-o = a red dog dog-determinant mu-red-abs/att-o = the red dog abs-dog bite = the dog bites fraro mu-kjak-abs-o = a biting dog
> > Case 6: > A RED dog bit me > (modifier) (also serves as genitive) >
see above 'genitive' is an absolute attributive case
> Now, there are some other possibilities: > > Case 7: > HE runs. > (factitive?) -> this could be merged with agent.
abs-he run
> Case 8: > The dog is red > (attributive?)
att/abs-dog red
> Case 9: > A dog is an animal > (equative?) >
yes (classifying equative) but you could use agentive ('age') by default : age-dog animal = the dog behaves like animal
> These two could be shown by making the dog the theme. > --> dog, pred-red "The dog, it is red" > dog, pred-animal "The dog, it's an animal" >
dog, (att-it) pred-red dog, (age-it) pred-animal
> The lack of case inflection and the pause would mark > the theme; you can't possibly misinterpret something like > "The dog was reddened" (which would be [patient-dog pred-red]). > > I mean, you could, but context would tell you it's not probable. > > dog, caus-I pred-red > > would probably mean "I made the dog red".
dog, erg-me (att-it) pred-red(-att-u)
> > What I'm trying to do here is to show you that there's > a way to reduce the complexity of the case system by merging > some related functions into a single case, and letting word > order and context do the rest.
That's precisely what I think. I find the 10-case system very
> interesting but too difficult to use... I don't know if the > rest of us feel the same.
Well, you always surprise me : I can feel you're the only one who is so brave as to have thought anyone may want 10 cases (except for me :-)
> > > --Pablo Flores > >
Mathias ----- See the original message at http://www.egroups.com/list/conlang/?start=17407 -- Free e-mail group hosting at http://www.eGroups.com/