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Re: Serial verbs in trigger systems

From:Kristian Jensen <kljensen@...>
Date:Tuesday, March 16, 1999, 17:12
Pablo Flores wrote:

>Kristian Jensen <kljensen@...> wrote: >> Pablo Flores wrote: >> >> -----<snip>----- >> >My question is: does this seem farfetched? (It does, >> >a bit, to me). Is this used in natlangs? Any other >> >ideas? Suggestions are welcome. >> >> You probably think its farfetched because you're not used to >> dealing with trigger systems, but it looks like a fairly logical >> extension of a trigger system to me. Though I fail to see any >> serial verbs in the construction you have made. > >Yes, my idea changed in mid-way. What I wanted to do >was something like "I cut wood use axe", with the series >cut-use, but then I saw this would be differently handled >in a trigger language.
Since you posted the query on the possibility of serial verbs in trigger languages, I have pondered whether this is at all possible. I don't think it is, but then perhaps that's because my own frame of thought is rigidly Filipino. The closest construction I can think of that bears a cut-use serial verb and still maintains a trigger system to a certain degree reminds me of an experiment I tried out a year or two ago for Boreanesian. It involved incorporation. So the sample sentence might literally translate as "I am the wood-cutter-user of an axe" or "I am the axe-user-cutter of wood". If you want to carry on with this experiment, you have my blessings. 8-)
>> Tagalog might have a similar construction. If I were to say "I >> cut wood with an axe" in Tagalog, I'd normally say something >> like: >> >> Gumamit ako ng palakol sa pagputol ng kahoy. >> AGT.use TRG.I GEN axe OBL for-cutting GEN wood >> lit.: "I am the user of an axe for the cutting of wood." >> >> or >> >> Palakol ang ginamit ko sa pagputol ng kahoy. >> axe TRG PAT.use GEN.I OBL for-cutting GEN wood >> lit.: "My instrument for the cutting of wood is an axe." > >What is _pagputol_ "for cutting"? Is it an inflected form of a >predicate "cut"? I'm guessing _p-agp-utol_ with an infix -agp- >(judging by _pumutol_ below).
You almost got it. It is an inflected form of the word for "cutting" meaning "for cutting" - (you got that right). But the affix is a prefix: pag + putol = pagputol.
>[snip] >> >> But in your construction, you're trigger is the cutter of wood as >> the user of an axe. Thus you're construction is not much >> different from the Tagalog construction below: >> >> Ako ang pumutol ng kahoy na gumamit ng palakol >> I TRG AGT.cut GEN wood [ AGT.use GEN axe ] >> lit.: "The cutter of wood who is the user of an axe is me." >> > >Almost my way. What is _na_, a subordinate clause marker? >This is more of a serial verb construction than my INSTR.do >because the trigger remains the same.
Yes, "na" is a subordinate clause marker used in much the same way that an English speaker would use "that", e.g.: "The person *that* went to the market is a Boreanesian".
>I guess I didn't see the other possible ways >because I'm not familiar with the system and I tend to put >things into the very rigid limited frames I have. I'm gonna >change that.
This is one of the reasons I love trigger systems. It is extremely flexible, and you can topicalize anything.
>Thanks a lot for the examples!
I'm glad I could be of help. -kristian- 8-)