Ray Brown scripsit:
> On Tuesday, September 16, 2003, at 04:40 , Isaac Penzev wrote:
>
> > Ray Brown scripsit:
> >
> >
> >> That's right - direct translation from the Greek would be:
> >> "Our father in the heavens"
> >
> > Wrong. The Greek text says:
> > << páter he:môn ho en toîs ouranoîs >>
> > lit.: father our the-m.sn.N. in the-m.pl.D. heavens
>
> I know all about the article - I have known Greek for 50 years!
My apologies.
Indeed, I was giving mere glosses :)
> I can't imagine a
> congregation reciting: "Our father the in the heavens".
LOL
> I was attempting to give the _closest_ acceptable English to the Greek
> original.
"Our father in heaven"? Sounds nice. But, sof-sof, English is *not* my L1 :)
> > Btw, it looks more like a calque from a traditional Hebrew "avinu she
> > bashamayim"...
>
> I think not - the Greeks were using the article like this after definite
> nouns long
> before they came in contact with Hebrew.
I meant *this particular* formula :)
It's very good that it doesn't contradict the Greek grammar :)
I merely thought that Rabbi Y'shua and His disciples talked Hebrew (or at least
Aramaic, which has "abuna d'b'shmaya" with the same meaning).
Med lufe,
-- Yitzik