Re: Language universal?

Andreas Johansson wrote:
>
> >
> >Andreas Johansson wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >Musing on a new thread here . . .
> > > >
> > > >A while ago, someone mentioned that prepositions do not ever govern the
> > > >nominative case in languages that mark case.
> > >
> > > I assume genitive don't count? Otherwise, English do mark case and have
> > > nominative after prepositions ...
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >I wouldn't really call the non-genitive case in English the nominative.
> >I think "oblique" is the term to describe an "everything that doesn't
> >have it's own case" case, such as the non-genitive in English.
> >
> >I'm not sure about this, though. Anyone reading this, feel free to
> >correct me if I'm mistaken on any counts.
> >
> >--
> >Robert
>
> So in order to be a true nominative it would have to have some sort of
> explicit nominative marker?
>
> That'd put my conlang in an even weirder situation (assuming that I don't
> want to break the supposed universal of no prepositions governing
> nominative). In it's "present" form, the nominative/oblique singular is
> identical to the stem of the noun, but that's only because the explicit
> nominative marker that existed in earlier forms dissappeared due to a
> perfectly regular phonologic change!
A disclaimer: I am not an expert on what follows in any sense of the
word. I am merely applying my understanding of the facts at hand. If I
am mistaken, anypone please feel free to correct me.

Well, to answer your question, it does have to have some sort of marker,
but that marker can be nil. provided that the noun changes in other
cases.

The reason I wouldn't call English's unmarked case the nominative is
because it covers everything *but* the Genitive. It can cover more than
one situation (such as a combination nominative/accusative form), but
I'd hesitate to call any case the nominative if I could define it most
easily by what case it *isn't*.

Actually, you could say, based on the personal pronouns, English has 3
cases - Nominative, Accusative/Dative, and Genitive, and the Nom and
Acc/Dat are the same for nouns. Then, since you use the Acc/Dat form of
pronouns after all prepositions I can think of, the same would hold true
for nouns - and thus the linguistic universal holds in the case of
English.

Of course, with conlanging, you only need to follow universals if you
want to. In the end, it all comes down to what feels "right" to you,
universal or no.

--
Robert