YAGPT:Re: Announcement: New auxlang "Choton"

Pascal A. Kramm wrote:

>Four-in-One reply.
>So let's see what we have there:
>
>#1
>On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:29:26 -0000, Christian Thalmann <cinga@...> wrote:
>
>
>>You have a very strange dictionary.  Ärger is pronounced
>>[E6g6], where [6] is the "a-flavored schwa".  Phonemically,
>>I guess it's /Erg@r/.  Clearly, the [E] is distinct from the
>>schwa, but that has nothing to do with the spelling, only
>>with stress placement.
>>
>>
>
>Strange? It's a normal Langenscheidt dictionary. It also includes the Ipa
>pronunciation at the beginning.
>
>
>
>>Consider this: When the new orthography writes "behände"
>>rather than "behende", does the pronunciation change?  In
>>standard High German, it doesn't, which is why they could
>>pull off that kind of change in the first place.
>>
>>
>
>It clearly DOES. Perhaps there is no difference in your dialect, but
>normally, there IS. That's one reason why so many oppose the spelling
>reform, because the pronunciation DOES change, encouraging MISpronunciation.
>
>
>
>
In the English debates, we don't have things like this.  We merely agree
that we speak different dialects and stop talking about these things.
And there's no such thing as mispronounciation.

>>BTW: Sorry if I came off unfriendly in my first post.  Your
>>comments struck me as rather arrogant, but now I see that
>>they simply come from misinformation.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>>and all the dictionaries agree with us.  If |Sätze| and
>>|setze| sounded different, the distinction would be
>>phonemic, and it would be downright sloppy not to include
>>it in the Duden.
>>
>>
>
>"You have very strange dictionaries..."
>(nah, just joking)
>The Ipa spelling in the dictionaries was created by native English speakers
>who generally can't hear a difference, so of course the dictionaries won't
>list one either.
>
>
Hold on.  English distinguishes /&/ and /E/(bed vs. bad), for one
thing.  And I doubt that this would be written without consultation from
German speakers, if not by German speakers.

>
>
>>My impression is that you are referring to a feature of
>>your local dialect, rather than standard Hochdeutsch.
>>
>>
>
>It's rather the very opposite. Apparently your local dialect is influenced
>by English speakers, explaining why you can't hear a difference just like them.
>
>
>
His local dialect is Swiss - ie. He is not talking about his local
dialect, but Hochdeutsch.  But I doubt he's influenced to any great degree.