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YAGPT:Re: Announcement: New auxlang "Choton"

From:Joe <joe@...>
Date:Wednesday, October 6, 2004, 6:14
Pascal A. Kramm wrote:

>Four-in-One reply. >So let's see what we have there: > >#1 >On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:29:26 -0000, Christian Thalmann <cinga@...> wrote: > > >>You have a very strange dictionary. Ärger is pronounced >>[E6g6], where [6] is the "a-flavored schwa". Phonemically, >>I guess it's /Erg@r/. Clearly, the [E] is distinct from the >>schwa, but that has nothing to do with the spelling, only >>with stress placement. >> >> > >Strange? It's a normal Langenscheidt dictionary. It also includes the Ipa >pronunciation at the beginning. > > > >>Consider this: When the new orthography writes "behände" >>rather than "behende", does the pronunciation change? In >>standard High German, it doesn't, which is why they could >>pull off that kind of change in the first place. >> >> > >It clearly DOES. Perhaps there is no difference in your dialect, but >normally, there IS. That's one reason why so many oppose the spelling >reform, because the pronunciation DOES change, encouraging MISpronunciation. > > > >
In the English debates, we don't have things like this. We merely agree that we speak different dialects and stop talking about these things. And there's no such thing as mispronounciation.
>>BTW: Sorry if I came off unfriendly in my first post. Your >>comments struck me as rather arrogant, but now I see that >>they simply come from misinformation. >> >> > > > > > >>and all the dictionaries agree with us. If |Sätze| and >>|setze| sounded different, the distinction would be >>phonemic, and it would be downright sloppy not to include >>it in the Duden. >> >> > >"You have very strange dictionaries..." >(nah, just joking) >The Ipa spelling in the dictionaries was created by native English speakers >who generally can't hear a difference, so of course the dictionaries won't >list one either. > >
Hold on. English distinguishes /&/ and /E/(bed vs. bad), for one thing. And I doubt that this would be written without consultation from German speakers, if not by German speakers.
> > >>My impression is that you are referring to a feature of >>your local dialect, rather than standard Hochdeutsch. >> >> > >It's rather the very opposite. Apparently your local dialect is influenced >by English speakers, explaining why you can't hear a difference just like them. > > >
His local dialect is Swiss - ie. He is not talking about his local dialect, but Hochdeutsch. But I doubt he's influenced to any great degree.