Raymond Brown wrote:
> At 12:20 pm -0400 27/4/00, bjm10@CORNELL.EDU wrote:
> >On Wed, 26 Apr 2000, Raymond Brown wrote:
> >
> >> This begs a few questions IMHO. Old English for Easter is 'Èastre',
with
> >> initial _long_ e; like the modern German 'Ostern' it is clearly cognate
> >> with the word for 'east', 'Èast' in Old English; 'Ost' in modern
German.
> >
> >And then there's the Greek for "Easter": Pascha, from the Hebrew
> >"Pesach"--Passover. That's always one to set some heads a-scratchin'
>
> Not really - things to do with Easter are often referred to as 'Pascal' in
> the liturgy of my Church (which, as you've probably guessed, is the Roman
> one :) And in our liturgy, particularly the Easter Vigil, the
references
> to the Jewish Passover are clear & obvious; and Christ is referred to as
> 'our Passover Sacrifice'.
Like "paschal candle" and suchlike?
> >> We have IIRC only the Venerable Bede's authority to connecting 'Èastre'
> >> with the name of the goddess Eostre (or Eastre) whose name begins with
a
> >> short e. Do we have any independent accounts or evidence about this
> >> goddess. Is here name really derived from the same root as East, Latin
&
> >
> >I have yet to find any at all.
>
> Me too - that's why I was hoping, in vain so far, that one who recently
> celebrated her feast would be able to enlighten me (and you also, it
seems).
Yes, we have etymological backing (refer to last post). Mostly, we're quite
good with etymologies. It's just the word "wicca" which is so rediculous to
anyone who has even the slightest knowledge of linguistics.
> >> Do we have, indeed, independent evidence about this goddess - other
than
> >> what Bede tells us? What exactly was she goddess of? When was her
> >> festival? Was it actually at the Vernal Equinox itself or was the moon
> >> also used in calculating the exact date?
> >
> >The method of calculating the date of Pascha (called "Easter" in English)
> >was set by the First Council of Nicea, with NO known input from Saxons.
>
> Indeed not - and I did not intend to imply that. Sorry.
No, the Christians just superimposed their festival over ours, taking the
name. Just like Christmas, which was "yule" for ages in English and AFAIK
still is in the Scandinavian languages.
> What I was really asking is whether Bede tells us that Eostre's festival
> was at the Vernal Equinox. If he does not, then what evidence do we have
> that it was? As certainly pagans in the mediterranean area used the moon
> as well as the sun for determining festivals, is it not possible that her
> festival was also calculated according to a lunisolar calendar? I was not
> intending to imply, however, that it was the same method as that
> established at the Council of Nicaea.
No, we were at it a bit earlier than the Council of Nicaea. As to a
lunisolar calendar, I really don't know. It's plausible but we have no
evidence either for or against. Bede doesn't explicitly say that Eastre was
at the Equinox, but in our opinion, it's the most likely. The month of
Eastre is at about the same time as the Equinox. It just makes sense that
the festival was celebrated at the nearest major calendric event.
<snip>
> >> These are genuine questions. I don't know the answers. But the older
I
> >> get, the more Bede's etymology seems to me like a perpetuation of 'folk
> >> etymology' of his day.
> >
> >>From what I recall of the passage (in translation), I get a sort of "Old
> >Jim-Bob tells us that his great-grandpappy remembered that HIS
> >great-great-great-grandpappy worshipped some goddess or another by that
> >name." feel from it.
>
> Gosh - is that really so?
>
> I must track the passage down. The goddess is vanishing before my very
eyes.
Please don't be sarcastic, I get enough of this constant badgering to
validate my beliefs at uni. I _won't_ retort with my argument that Jesus
Christ, only begotten son of the LORD God was actually a pagan himself. Why
not leave us rather inoffensive bunch alone and get back to
interdenominational wrangling?
Dan
> Ray.
----
Bengesko niamso.
Cursed German.
----
Dan Morrison (http://www.geocities.com/yl_ruil/index.html)