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tree, dream

From:Mat McVeagh <matmcv@...>
Date:Monday, November 4, 2002, 11:01
>From: Muke Tever <mktvr@...> > >From: "Jake X" <alwaysawake247@...> > > > On the word 'stoopit', I guess that's an American way of making >'stupid' > > > stupid, because they can't just do 'stoopid' because that's the normal > > > pronunciation? The word seems to have essentially become 'stoopid' > > > /stu;p@d/ here all the time, even though 'student' is still >/stSu;d@nt/. > > > > > My dialect doesn't have /stSu:d@nt/ at all. We say /stu;dent/, though >in my > > case I pronounce the /t/ with aspiration, not as sloppily as to have /t/ >--> > > /tS/. This is similar to the way my little brother, when he was >learning to > > write, misspelled "tree" as "chree": because of the combination of >aspirated > > t-initial and American semivocalic r, he percieved it with the wrong > > phonemes. Anyway.... > >I wouldn't say it was with the wrong phonemes as that the spelling is >outdated. >It's certainly /tSri:/ here, with /S/ epenthetic[1]. And I wouldn't blame >the >aspiration either, because e.g., "dream" is /dZri:m/. [At least in my >lect. >Yours will almost certainly differ, but presumably not your brother's.] > > *Muke! >-- >
Wow this is true. I think I may have come across this before, but maybe not this precise example. Certainly I say /'hIstS@ri/ or even /'hIstSj@ri/ for "history", /'mIstS(j)@ri/ for "mystery", instead of the /'hIst@ri 'mIst@ri/ my mother tried to correct me with (or /'hIstri 'mIstri/, equally common). What gets me is that that is before a vowel. I have always thought of "tree" as /tr<o>i/ (<o> = voiceless diacritic in ASCII-IPA). The standard British /r/ is supposedly an alveolar approximant, but I have always found it to be a labiodental-palato-alveolar. Given the palato-alveolar element I suppose it could glide from /t{pla}/ to /S/ to /r{pla}{vls}/. Similarly with "dream", it's definitely not just /drim/, sounds more like /dZrim/. Again, the stop on the front is probably palato-alveolar in anticipation of the /r/, and glides thru a fricative on the way. And you can kind of see why - the stop has become assimilated to the place of the approximant (if you agree with me that it's really palato-alveolar not alveolar), and fricatives are a method physically in between stops and approximants. So it's almost inevitable that eventually a fricative will be put in there. In a certain book a place is named "Jeamland" based on a child's pronunciation of "Dreamland". That really is a childish (mis)pronunciation, since it omits the labiodental aspect of /r/. But it replaces /r/ with... /Z/, forming an affricate /dZ/. Mat _________________________________________________________________ Surf the Web without missing calls! Get MSN Broadband.


bnathyuw <bnathyuw@...>