Re: R: German dialectology

Hi!

Mangiat <mangiat@...> writes:
> 2) where does the HG / LG division lies, today?
As I mentioned, there is a typical shift in pronunciation that was
only performed in the development of High German.  This is called
(surprise, surprise) `High German Sound Shift' (Hochdeutsche
Lautverschiebung).

Even dialects that are very easily comprehensible and use mostly the
same word, have not (fully) performed this shift and often underwent
different changes, and are not considered High German.  The typical
things for High German are:

  - the presence of the affricate /pf/

    Many dialects kept /p/ instead.  I'd judge that the /f/ part is
    important for High German.  In my own dialect of High German, the
    /p/ in often dropped in initial position (maybe because we're too
    lazy...), but still, I'd consider it High German dialect.

    OTOH, Saarlandian, Palatinion, Bavarian, Svabian, Lower German,
    etc. all do not have /pf/, and, thus, are no High German.

  - the presence of /au/, especially, as I mentioned before, if
    `Haus' and `Baum' have the same diphthong /aU/.

    E.g. Saarlandian has /hu:s/ and /ba:m/.  Lower German as spoken
    from where I come has /hiUs/ and (I'm guessing) /bo:m/.

The time when this High German Sound Shift occured also shows you when
High German was first spoken.  But I don't know where and why. :-)

Oh, yes, the following I'd consider variations that are allowed to
still qualify a dialect as High German:

  - {r} pronounced as an alveolar trill instead of a uvular trill
    or uvular voiced fricative.

  - {pf} pronounced as /f/ in initial position: `Pferd' [fE:6t]
    instead of [pfe:6t]

  - /E:/ or /E/ in some positions where the standard says /e:/
    `Pferd' [fE:6t] instead of [pfe:6t].

  - `nicht' pronounced as /nIC/.

  - `ich sage' pronounced as /IC zaX/.

These seem to me to be post-High-German-Sound-Shift changes (still
often influenced by the local non-High-German dialects).


> 3) how is it possible that Hannover, in the North, speaks the clearest
> version of High German?
  I suppose because High German is spoken there without the presence
  of another non-High German dialect in that area.  There are very few
  parts of Germany where this is the case.


> 4) are dialects in Germany well alive? In Switzerland they are - people
> generally can't speak properly German... /'Abb@R@ zi: 'kYnn@ nu@R
> 'Svitts@RdutS Sprex@/.
  It greatly depends.  The tendency is that in Southern Germany,
  dialects are more likely to survive while in the North, Lower German
  slowly vanishes.  Bavarian, Svabian, Palatinian, Saarlandian, Swiss
  German are all alive and spoken by (almost) all children born in the
  corresponding area.


**Henrik