Re: Help Weird Up My Orthography, Sound Changes?
|From:||Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>|
|Date:||Monday, August 22, 2005, 18:52|
Shreyas Sampat <ssampat@...> writes:
> > Hi Shreyas, welcome back! :-)
> Hi, thanks! I missed y'all(:
> > :-) My current project S11 also uses Latin orthography -- it might
> > even be kept as it is since I especially like the assignment of
> > graphemes to vowels:
> > <a e i o u ä ë ï ö ü>
> > /A e i o u & 7 M 2 y/
> Woo, it's been too long, I had to go look up some of those vowels.
Ah, the S11 system is very regular: it's just the 'typical' five
vowels (aeiou) all unrounded and rounded and the /a/ split into front
and back. Graphically:
i y M u i ü ï u
e 2 7 o e ö ë o
& A ä a
> > <j> for retroflex seems weird to me, but maybe I just need to
> > think French [Z] instead of German [j], then its clearer.
> The <j> directly imitates the comma-below, which turns out to be less
> pretty in many cases (oddly enough). It was more or less the only
> letter that wasn't doing significant work elsewhere, and
> simultaneously didn't look bizarre (like <q> would have).
Ok, I see.
> It might also help to think of Sanskrit's ruki rule - high front
> vowels occasionally cause Sein' retroflexion.
Hmm, Sanskrit, yes. I should definitely have a very close look at
that now that I'm inventing a language with complex sandhi rules...
That high front vowels cause palatalisation seems to be quite common,
but how about retroflexion? Do many natlangs do that? Fricativation
if /i/ and even /y/ also happens occasionally as we saw just a few
days ago (Viby Swedisch and Mandarin Chinese).
But how about retroflexion? Or was there an intermediate step of
> > Hmm. How about introducing complex, irregular sandhi? And dont
> > insert helping apostrophes or dashes. :-)
> It's tempting! I think at one point I had noun-incorporation in my
> verbs, with some odd phenomena when they came into contact. I'll have
> to look into it!
> > Looks nice and I think it sounds good, if I pronounce it correctly
> > (although I'm bad at gemination together with vowel length, so
> > /kirik:i:s:ne/ is a bit difficult). How does stress work?
> I'd expect the length distinction in vowels to become a tense-lax
> pattern in casual speech.
Ah, ok. I don't know what's easier, though: a different vowel quality
> > I'm curious about the grammar.
> There're probably some cool tidbits about it in the Arda-lang
> Yahoogroup archives, but as I've forgotten a lot of it, I'll be
> redeciphering it and posting about it occasionally.
Ah, ok. Actually, I can't remember, sorry, :-( although I was
subscribed to Ardalang.
So I'm looking forward to seeing your reconstruction.