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Re: Help Weird Up My Orthography, Sound Changes?

From:Henrik Theiling <theiling@...>
Date:Monday, August 22, 2005, 18:52

Shreyas Sampat <ssampat@...> writes:
> > Hi Shreyas, welcome back! :-) > > Hi, thanks! I missed y'all(: > > > :-) My current project S11 also uses Latin orthography -- it might > > even be kept as it is since I especially like the assignment of > > graphemes to vowels: > > > > <a e i o u ä ë ï ö ü> > > /A e i o u & 7 M 2 y/ > > Woo, it's been too long, I had to go look up some of those vowels.
Ah, the S11 system is very regular: it's just the 'typical' five vowels (aeiou) all unrounded and rounded and the /a/ split into front and back. Graphically: i y M u i ü ï u e 2 7 o e ö ë o & A ä a
> > <j> for retroflex seems weird to me, but maybe I just need to > > think French [Z] instead of German [j], then its clearer. > > The <j> directly imitates the comma-below, which turns out to be less > pretty in many cases (oddly enough). It was more or less the only > letter that wasn't doing significant work elsewhere, and > simultaneously didn't look bizarre (like <q> would have).
Ok, I see.
> It might also help to think of Sanskrit's ruki rule - high front > vowels occasionally cause Sein' retroflexion.
Hmm, Sanskrit, yes. I should definitely have a very close look at that now that I'm inventing a language with complex sandhi rules... That high front vowels cause palatalisation seems to be quite common, but how about retroflexion? Do many natlangs do that? Fricativation if /i/ and even /y/ also happens occasionally as we saw just a few days ago (Viby Swedisch and Mandarin Chinese). But how about retroflexion? Or was there an intermediate step of palatalisation?
> > Hmm. How about introducing complex, irregular sandhi? And dont > > insert helping apostrophes or dashes. :-) > > >.> > <.< > It's tempting! I think at one point I had noun-incorporation in my > verbs, with some odd phenomena when they came into contact. I'll have > to look into it!
> > Looks nice and I think it sounds good, if I pronounce it correctly > > (although I'm bad at gemination together with vowel length, so > > /kirik:i:s:ne/ is a bit difficult). How does stress work? > > I'd expect the length distinction in vowels to become a tense-lax > pattern in casual speech.
Ah, ok. I don't know what's easier, though: a different vowel quality or lengthening...
>... > > I'm curious about the grammar. > > There're probably some cool tidbits about it in the Arda-lang > Yahoogroup archives, but as I've forgotten a lot of it, I'll be > redeciphering it and posting about it occasionally.
Ah, ok. Actually, I can't remember, sorry, :-( although I was subscribed to Ardalang. So I'm looking forward to seeing your reconstruction. **Henrik


Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg_rhiemeier@...>Ruki rule, retroflexion and palatalization (was Re: Help Weird Up My Orthography, Sound Changes?)