Theiling Online    Sitemap    Conlang Mailing List HQ   

Re: Possession (was: Re: Ergative)

From:Mathias M. Lassailly <lassailly@...>
Date:Friday, October 23, 1998, 21:19
Sally Caves wrote:
> > A book is with me, in Welsh. I've toyed for a long time with making this > > a part of Teonaht. > > Watya'iya`isa uses the dative with salauni' (sa- = dative-applicative, > launi' = be (loc.)), thus: ta^lnaz pisani salauni'l = to-me house it-is > = I have a/the house. However, the possessor can be made into the > absolutive thru the general dative-object rule
(dative can become
> absolutive; former absolutive is made perlative)
Dative is getting the object itself = apply the object Absolutive is getting the result of or the work or function of that object = apply the object as an instrument : me-dat house = I get a house. me-abs house = I get housed. It's not a question of predicate, but of verb. house (dat) > symbol (house) > home (abs) Thus, pisaniyi
> salauni'u = house-perl. dat.appl.-be-1Sabs. Dative-object construction > is required for transitive verbs when the recipient is a 1st or 2nd > person pronoun, and very common with 3rd person animate pronouns, > moderately common with 3rd person inanimate pronouns, and fairly rare > with animate nouns, and non-existent with inanimate nouns. Anyways, > with intransitive verbs (like salauni'), it's also quite common for 1st > and 2nd person pronouns. In fact, I suspect that salauni' would evolve > into a simple transitive verb "to have" in some of the descendants. > Perhaps the dative might remain in some archaic constructions, > equivalent to our "methinks". > > > Presently, there is a distinction, of course, between possession that > > is agentive and possession that isn't: Somebody has blue eyes through no > > willful act of his own, but someone has a house because he's bought it. > > _aned_ and _harem_. I think the gods, though, should be exempt from all > > unagentive acts: The gods HAVE (harem, not aned as I have written it) > > retractible claws because they are gods and have planned everything. > > Cool! I never even thought about that. Perhaps *that* will determine > when the dative-object construction is used in salauni' ... Something to > think about. > > -- > "It's bad manners to talk about ropes in the house of a man whose father > was hanged." - Irish proverb > > ICQ: 18656696 > AOL: NikTailor > >
----- See the original message at -- Free e-mail group hosting at