Re: Rinya cases

Daniel Andreasson wrote:
>
> Christophe Grandsire wrote:
>
> >         In most ergative languages that make such a difference between
> > volitional and unvolitional subjects, it is the case of the subject
> that
> > always changes, wherever in transitive or intransitive sentences. For
> > transitive sentences where the subject is unvolitional, the case used
> > for the object is still the absolutive, but the case for the subject
> is
> > generally the instrumental or an equivalent case.
> >
> >         But your way of doing it seems just fine also. I find it
> interesting
> > and original. Why not using for your objective another case already
> > existing? I think a spatial case would be just fine. In your example:
> > "Will saw the mouse", "the mouse" is a kind of 'origin' of the action
> > and not only the object of it, the 'experienced' as you say. So a
> > 'delative' or an 'originative' for this object would be just fine. But
> > here those are only my own ideas, just do what you want.
>
> I can choose for myself? Oh, Thanks! :)
        Yes, I tend to be very democratic :) .

> No, seriously. This "originative" is a good
> idea. I hadn't really thought the name
> over. Delative already has a definition by
> itself, and that could be confusing, unless
> I also use as it's usually used, and that
> seems kinda silly, since I don't have that
> many local cases.
> Or what do you mean with "delative"?
> My definition is: "a case which expresses motion downward
> from the referent of the noun it marks."
>
        It is also my definition. But "motion from" can be taken
metaphorically, hence my idea. Originative is a case I use in Azak to
show the origin, whether spatial or temporal (since). It isn't used in
Azak with a metaphorical meaning, but it could, that's why I got the
idea. But as the word "originative" is not a much employed name for
cases, you can give it the definition you want (well, as long as it
bears a resemblance with origin). You see, I'm very democratic :) .

--
        Christophe Grandsire

        Philips Research Laboratories --  Building WB 145
        Prof. Holstlaan 4
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        Phone:  +31-40-27-45006
        E-mail: grandsir@natlab.research.philips.com