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Re: [YAPT] Judge my vowels

From:J. 'Mach' Wust <j_mach_wust@...>
Date:Tuesday, July 27, 2004, 22:08
On Tue, 27 Jul 2004 15:25:42 -0500, Mark P. Line <mark@...> wrote:

>J. 'Mach' Wust said: >> Short [e] is identical to [I]. The only reason why we transcribe the >> first vowel of |defekt, prekär| with [e] and not with [I] is the >> orthography (there are no comparable words with |i|).
>> This is confirmed in the recent papers that have examined this question. >> As an example, you may have a look at the following: >> >> > >I don't see where they show that "bitte" doesn't have an [I] or "bete" >doesn't have an [e:], nor do I see how they could do so just from the >limited types of articulatory data they're considering.
You're right, they don't mix them up. They just don't know what the difference is. They've found that the vowel represented with [I] is lower (in terms of tongue position) than the vowel represented with [e(:)], inverting thus the usual 'vowel ladder', see p. 133. Also, they're saying that they're planning experiments to test whether the difference between [I] and [e] is perceptually relevant in German, at least that's how I read p. 140.
>In any event, I do not expect trained phoneticians to be fooled by >orthography. Trained phoneticians hear an [I] in "bitte" and an [e:] in >"bete" (still broad, but narrow enough for this distinction even with the >crowded high front sector) for speakers of the German national standard.
I wonder whether phoneticians that don't know German would hear the same. They'd normally learn that the tongue position in [I] is higher than in [e]. I admit that my claim that the quality of the first vowels in |bitte| and in |bete| were identical has been overhasty. It's likely that there may be a difference (though smaller than, say, between English [E_r] and German/French [E]). I still believe that the habit of transcribing them with [I] and [e:] is after all tradition, that is, influence by the orthography. g_0ry@_ˆs: j. 'mach' wust


Elliott Lash <erelion12@...>Development and Use of the Silindion Optative