Re: Tricky translations

Sai Emrys wrote:

> First, a short quote from David Peterson:
>
> > One simple example is that Megdevi had separate roots for
> > "ghost", "spirit" and "soul".  What exactly did these things mean?
> > They meant *exactly* what they mean in English: nothing more,
> > nothing less.  And what do you think the adjectival form of "spirit"
> > was?  That's right: "spirititual".  Same meaning as English.
Well, Kash has a word for "ghost" (kowana /ko'ana/, which contains _ana_
child, but the ko- part is obscure) and it would include one sense of
"spirit".  "Soul" (and another sense of "spirit") is included in _haniyu_
/xa'niu/ which also means 'mind, consciousness [of self]', an important word
that enters into a great many compounds for mental and emotional
states/qualities, and would probably cover "spiritual" (see the entry in the
dictionary). It also occurs in all the compounds having to do with
telepathy.  Yet another word _çehama_/Se'xama/ refers to the spirits that
are believed to inhabit the natural world.

The equivalent "soul/spirit/nature" of non-human/inanimate things is _maker_
>
> So, some brainstorming please: what would be good example sets of
> words and concepts like this - ones that would force you to pick apart
> the assumptions of your native language(s)?
I've had the most difficulty with prepositions, which are not a natural
class in Kash. There are really only two-- ri 'locative' and alo 'from'.
ri+accusative > location in/at/on, ri+dative > motion into/toward;
alo+genitive 'motion out of, away from'. These can combine with nouns of
location to be more precise:
ri nihin/acc.+ni + noun 'on top of Noun'
ri nihin-e/dat.+ni + noun 'to top of N, onto N'
alo nihin-i/gen+ni + N 'from on top of N, off of N' etc. etc.

Others are verbal: umit 'use= by means of, with', inga 'lack= without';
livek+ni > livengi (long) 'along, alongside'; or nominal-- uçom 'purpose' >
uçom+ni= uçoñi 'for, on behalf of'.

"Among/amidst", "through" and "against" (2 mngs.) are still a problem.
>
> I'd like to make this a homework assignment - "translate these words
> and justify the translations". Something along the lines of the "How
> to create good glosses" paper - intentionally creating a new framework
> (as in CogSci "frames") for your language.
In general, derived forms esp. of verbs cover several meanings in Engl, e.g.
tikas 'see', inchoative çutikas 'become visible, emerge', causative rundikas
'show, exhibit', potential (tra)potikas '(in)visible'; accidental cakatikas
'pop up, show up suddenly/unexpectedly'-- then there are sometimes
historically/analogically derived variations: tingas 'to watch, look at',
tihas [tixas] 'glimpse'

Polysemous Engl. words generally become completely different words in Kash;
e.g. "paper" as 1. material 2. newspaper 3. written essay 4. wallpaper (and
associated verbal idiom 'to paper over'). As for the last, since wallpaper
is a luxury item, the comparable idiom probably doesn't exist as such.
>
> Suggestions? Tricky things you've come across through experience (or
> through muttering in hindsight at your old translations)?
>
Oh lordy, constantly............