Re: Auxiliary verbs

On 5/9/06, Roger Mills <rfmilly@...> wrote:
>
> Yahya Abdal-Aziz wrote:
> > obConlang:  The auxiliary and modal verbs of
> > English present a useful model for the meta
> > discussion of action: expressing attitudes and
> > the like.  My feeling is that French, German and
> > Spanish have equally subtle distinctions, as
> > probably do most natlangs.
>
> I'm sure they do too, but just from umpteen years of
> studying/speaking/reading/writing Spanish, the distinctions under
> discussion
> have never occurred to me, nor AFAIK have I encountered them.
>
> First off, Span. doesn't seem to have a direct translation of "may"; one
> would have to use _permitir(se)_ I think.
>
> Se permite que vayas 'it's permitted that you go = you may go'
> No se permite que vayas 'you may not go (not permitted)'
> Se permite que no vayas 'you may [not go] (you have the option)'
>
> Similary with 'can' poder I think:
> puedes ir you can go (ability) no puedes ir (inability)
> ?*Puedes no ir 'you can [not go]' you have the option; I feel
> puede ser que no vayas would be better-- or is "puede que no vayas" OK?? I
> need a native speaker!!

 OK... native speaker to the rescue.  But I speak Mexican and Spanglish
mainly.

The thing with 'may' is that, as you said, there is no direct translation
AFAIK. We do sometimes use 'permitir(se)', which means 'allow' (in some
cases, in others it can mean 'be able to afford'). With 'can' it's a little
more straightforward:

'puedes ir' = 'you can go', and 'no puedes ir' = 'you can't go'.
'puedes no ir' = 'you can choose not to go'
'puede (ser) que no vayas' = 'it might be that you don't go' (aprox.)
'puede (ser) que vayas' = 'it might be that you go'
'puede (ser) que sí vayas' = 'it might be that you do go'

So in Spanish we do have some verbs that can be used as auxiliaries, but I
don't remember any that act as modals (whatever that is, grammar is not my
forte). What I'm trying to say, I think, is that we don't have words that
are used exclusively as auxiliaries and not in any other form.

I'm bad at explaining Spanish (I'm an English teacher... Spanish is more
difficult to teach) ;)

Sapthan.

--
Nac Mac Feegle! Wee Free Men!
Nae King! Nae Quin! Nae Laird! Nae Master!
We Willna Be Fooled Again!