Re: Tzeltal's got only one preposition?!

> Carsten wrote:
>
> "But nevertheless, how does Tagalog manages to do with only one
> prepositional something, "sa" that is (IIUnderstoodThatC)? It's still not
> clear to me after reading
> www.seasite.niu.edu/Tagalog/GrammarActivities/Grammar1/Markers/Sa&Kay.htm.
> Seemingly, "sa" can mean any preposition. Or depends it on the case as
> well?"
For some reason I get a "page not found" there, but anyway, I'd be
suspicious of any claim that Tagalog (or any other language) has only one
preposition. It's true that "prepositions" as we know them are in rather
short supply in Indonesian/Tagalog and relatives, but there are plenty of
ways around that.

Just re Tagalog, the rather sparse entry for "sa" in my dictionary suggests
that the meaning 'to, from, for' etc. depends on the verb.
Examples given:
pumuntá sa lalawigan 'to go to the province'-- in fact, p/um/untá is defined
as 'to go to', so "sa" here may just be some sort of relational marker.
Similarly in--
sásama sa akin 'will go with me', where sama is 'companion'; verbalized by I
don't know what process..... and several others.

Tag. also has "prepositions" kay = 'for' (replaces sa with personal names),
and "mula" ('beginning') = 'from'---- I confess I don't know Tag. grammar,
but I _was_ familiar with these two from other contexts, which made me doubt
the "one preposition" claim.

In Malay/Bah.Indonesia, one could say there is only one _main_ preposition,
"di", but unlike Tag. sa, it can never mean 'from' or 'with'. But it does
enter into lots of compounds which extend/clarify the meaning--
di meja 'in/at/on the table -- di atas meja 'on top of the table' -- di
bawah meja 'under...'(These are also written as one word, diatas, dibawah
etc.) -- didalam 'inside...' diluar 'outside'.  I would assume Tagalog and
other relatives have similar strategies available.

There's also Indo. _dari_ 'from' which can enter into many of the same
compounds.  Unlike Tag. mula, it has no other meaning, and is actually of
rather obscure origin. Then there's _dengan_ 'with' (both comitative and
instrumental; it can also mean 'and'), which means 'companion' in related
langs.

atas, bawah, dalam, luar etc. are nouns in their own right meaning 'top,
bottom, interior, outside'-- some of them can also be used without di in
"prepositional" expressions -- dalam kamar = didalam kamar 'in(side) the
room', luar negeri 'outside the country = overseas".

Another way to get around the paucity of "prepositions" is to press verbs
into service:  Indo. sampai 'arrive' = until, up to; Bugis pole 'come' =
from.  Etc. Etc. ETc.

Keep in mind that even in Engl. and other familiar langs., the class of
prepositions is a mixed bag of unanalyzable unitary forms (in, at, by, up)
plus a bunch of derived/compounded forms whose history is only occasionally
clear to the average speaker-- above? below, beneath, before, after, inside,
outside, into, out of, on top of, via, per, by means of...

And Trebor wrote (the source of this thread I think):
>
> Unfortunately I can't answer your question--I'd like to know, though.
> There
> actually is a word for "inside" at least--I overlooked this fact--given in
> the Tzeltal grammar at
> http://www.tzeltal.org/download/smith.txt
> (in section 3.2.8). Does anyone know of any other such words?
>
(Oh my, talk about no line breaks, in that webpage, I hate when they do
that!!!) Probably an interesting site, but the writer apparently neglects,
at the very outset, to describe how Tzeltal "j" is pronounced...  But
anyway, in one of the initial paragraphs way off on the right side, there is
mention of "bah" meaning 'on top of'...  So that makes 2 preps. in the
language, at least.