Re: [YAEPT] Question about consonants in English

On vr, 2007-12-14 at 21:05 -0500, Jeffrey Jones wrote:
> On Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:14:45 -0800, David J. Peterson
> <dedalvs@...> wrote:
> >
> >Luckily, in English we don't have to rely purely on voice to
> >tell us that a consonant is voiced.  The best thing you can do
> >is learn to control vowel length:
> >
> >"bet" [bEt]
> >"bed" [bE:d]
> >
> >So let's say you can't do [d] at the end of a word.  Given a choice
> >between...
> >
> >(1) [bEt]
> >(2) [bE:t]
> >
> >...an English speaker will hear the second as "bed".  In fact, this
> >may be going out on a limb a bit, but I'd wager that a native
> >English speaker would find [bE:t] a more natural pronunciation
> >of "bed" than [bEd].
>
> I'm afraid that definitely doesn't work for me. [bE:t] sounds like an emphasized
> version of "bet", while [bEd] is "bed" (and in fact I don't seem to lengthen the
> [E] very much; part of the extra length goes to the [d], despite the fact that
> the [d] is fully voiced).
It is the same for me, really. Lengthening a vowel is having a similar
use as italics have in text, noting this is important (though, used a
bit more often).

> Digressing, I had to work a bit to pronounce final [t]. In normal speech I
> mostly use [?] there but sometimes [t_h] and when took away the aspiration,
> I found I was automatically shifting to a dental stop.
>
> >-David
> >**********************************************************
> *********
> >"sunly eleSkarez ygralleryf ydZZixelje je ox2mejze."
> >"No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."
> >
> >-Jim Morrison
> >
> >http://dedalvs.free.fr/
> >
> >On Dec 14, 2007, at 3°48 PM, Geijss Streijde wrote:
> >
> >> Hello people,
> >>
> >> Thank you for taking your time to read this message.
> >>
> >> As English is my L2, I have a tiny issue with the pronouncation of it
> >> and was wondering if you had any pointers on how to correct my
> >> pronouncation.
> >>
> >> The problem is that in my L1 it is impossible for a word to end in a
> >> voiced consonant, as such I find it impossible to do this in other
> >> languages.
> >>
> >> An example I can give is the following. The word 'Bed' I pronounce
> >> naturally as [b3t], and if I try really hard to voice the /d/ it comes
> >> out as [b3.d@] or [b3d.d@].
> >>
> >> I was wondering if you had any tips for me to improve my pronouncation
> >> of English, or if I just should keep using the [@] at the end of the
> >> words.
>
> If you can make the [@] _extremely_ short it might work. BTW, do you really
> use a central vowel there ([3] represents a central vowel in CXS, the
> corresponding front vowel being [E])? If so that might be a problem too. But I
> suspect it's just a notational issue.
I can make it really short already, but it is (I think) still easily
noticed.

And, that was an error, mirrored the IPA in my mind when looking up the
CXS (I currently look up the IPA, then transform it to the CXS with a
chart comparing the two, errors were bound to slip in some day).

>
> >> I look forward to your replies.
> >>
> >> Yours,
> >>
> >> Geijss Streijde
> >>

On vr, 2007-12-14 at 20:07 -0500, MorphemeAddict@WMCONNECT.COM wrote:
> In a message dated 12/14/2007 6:02:09 PM Central Standard Time,
> gijsstrider@GMAIL.COM writes:
>
>
> > The word 'Bed' I pronounce
> > naturally as [b3t], and if I try really hard to voice the /d/ it comes
> > out as [b3.d@] or [b3d.d@].
> >
> > I was wondering if you had any tips for me to improve my pronouncation
> > of English, or if I just should keep using the [@] at the end of the
> > words.
> >
> > I look forward to your replies.
> >
> > Yours,
> >
> > Geijss Streijde
> >
>
> Have you tried saying [b3.d@], but stopping before you get to the final [@]?
I have tried, the only way I have succeeded so far is by literally
swallowing the [@], which is quite unhandy when you're trying to have a
conversation.

> Or say it in sentences or phrases with a following vowel or voiced consonant
> and running it all together without pauses:  The bad bed didn't feel right.
That eases it somewhat, but I can't make very long sentences easily
without taking a breath in between.

> It seems that the only time you should have a problem with this is when 'bed'
> is followed by silence or an unvoiced consonant.  Is this right?
>
> stevo   </HTML>
That would be mostly correct, yes.

Geijss Streijde

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