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R: R: German dialectology

From:Mangiat <mangiat@...>
Date:Sunday, April 29, 2001, 19:38
I wrote:

> A few questions: > > 1) where was High German originally spoken? Is there a particular dialect > playing an important role in NHG's development (as Fiorentino for
Italian)?
> > 2) where does the HG / LG division lies, today?
that'd obviously be 'where does.... *lie*'
> 3) how is it possible that Hannover, in the North, speaks the clearest > version of High German? > > 4) are dialects in Germany well alive? In Switzerland they are - people > generally can't speak properly German... /'Abb@R@ zi: 'kYnn@ nu@R > 'Svitts@RdutS Sprex@/.
that'd be /'Svitts@RdytS/, with /y/, not /u/. 5) Are cases preserved in modern German dialects? Dutch hasn't cases anymore: Low German? I'm not sure about this matter Alemannisch dialects as Schwitzerdütsch... Luca
> Thanks in advance, > > Luca > > > Hi! > > > > Frank George Valoczy <valoczy@...> writes: > > > > > > Then, two extra-short [n]'s? > > > > Maybe, but I don't know, maybe one n that is truely shared. > > > > > Yes, in Eeschtraaksch. > > > > > > I think what we need to do is something I've had difficulty with for a > > > long time: determining the distinction between what is truly "High > > > German" and what is dialect. > > > > Usually you can see from the vowels whether it is High German. Maybe > > if the second German vowel shift applies, I'd consider it HG. > > I.e. `Haus' and `Baum' have the same diphthong and no monophthongs. > > `Euch' has [OI] and not [aI] or anything. There are rounded front > > vowels. These I would take as indications. If all apply (maybe > > others), I'd consider it HG. > > > > > In my experience the speech of Frankfurt am Main is fairly close to
what
> I > > > generally consider to be High German [namely that what they speak on > > > Deutsche Welle], so is that HG or dialect that lays close to it? > > > > Hannover is assumed to have the clearest version. Frankfurt is ok, > > but there is dialect around it and probably only the city has High > > German. > > > > > I find that in big cities generally the speech is fairly close to > Standard > > > HG [or is that just people reciprocating when they hear me speak HG?
Tho
> > > > No, I'd say that it's usually correct that cities have clearer HG. > > > > > even my HG is a bit coloured by dialect, example I say /IS/ for /IC/
and
> > > /nISt/, or even /nIt/ if I'm not being careful, for /nICt/] but I've > > > > I say [?IC] and [nIC]. If the fricative drops in `nicht', I'd start > > thinking it's no HG anymore. Dropping the end-T seems ok. But it's not > > clear who makes up these rules, right. :-) > > > > > It's often feelings like that which lead to interesting discoveries. > > > > That's why I still answer using my impression only. :-))) > > > > **Henrik > >