Garrett Jones wrote:
>In the interest of having some kind of traffic on the list,
You think there isn't enough???? :-)
>This poll will be about articles, definite and indefinite. >
>so, how do you translate the following meanings into your conlangs? >
Kash is rather impoverished in the article department. (1) The
demonstrative _iya_ (gendered forms available) aside from being the 3sg.
pronoun, also serves as "that", or "the". (In some cases _taya_ 'this'
would be appropriate.) Human-animate nouns (but not proper names) are made
definite only with iya. (2) Inaminates and non-human animates can also be
made definite with the 3/poss suffix -ni, provided they've been mentioned,
or are presupposed, in the discourse. In some cases it's ambiguous
whether -ni is definite or truly possessive. And in many cases, in context,
it's unnecessary to indicate whether a noun is def. or indef. (3) an
specifying "article" _e_ whose uses will be seen below.
>T* = the, A* = a/an, N* = [none]
>
>THE:
>
>TA. a certain one being spoken of/already mentioned (introduced by AA).
>-The story ended. -NI
>-So then I smacked the guy. IYA (actually this impolite form of "guy" is
neuter, so IYU)
>
>TB. hypothetical instance of (introduced by AB).
>-I want a girlfriend. The girl has to be cute. NO. ....she has to be cute
>-I need some paint. The paint is going to be used here. -NI; with IYU it
would refer to some specific paint.
>
>TC. the one and only (geographic/environmental/locational)
>-The sun is very hot today. (both occurances here) NO
>-The sky is bright today.NO
>-The world is falling apart. TAYA 'this' probably; otherwise NO
>-I don't like the weather. TAYA 'this'; -NI if referring to a spec. place
>-He came to us from the north. NO
>-I walked to the edge and contemplated jumping. (the edge of a cliff) -NI
>-Let's meet at the entrance. _NI most likely
>-Where is the bathroom? riyena eyurun? < e yurun "THE place", lexicalized
>
>TD. the one identified by/as (the modifier of the noun)
>-the man who answered (as opposed to the one who ignored his phone) IYA/NO
>-the hit of the week (as opposed to the hit of the year) NO
>-the right to strike (as opposed to the right to remain silent) possibly E
... since it's an abstract.
>-You can be the father in our play. -NI or NO
>-The purple people eater is here to get us! could be E... as an epithet
("Vlad the Impaler" would be _vlad impaler_; The Impaler would be _e
impaler_
>-What is the point of your story? ...point-ni story-your
>-The coffee in my cup is hot. -NI provided "my" is not emphasized
>-Which one was the movie that you hate? NO: which movie did you hate?
>-We take the air we breathe for granted. NO
Many of the items in TC and TD refer to unique phenomena (sun, north, sky,
air) which seem to me to be intrinsically definite.
>
>TE. an integral part or clothing of the obvious entity (possessives can
also
>be used for these in english)
>-I smacked him in the face. -NI, but here in its possessive sense
>-Take me by the hand. -MI 'my'
>-You should hold your mug by the handle. -NI 'its/the'
>-The surface is extremely hot, don't touch it. -NI
>-I held him by the collar. -NI
>
>TF. that which is present/close, as opposed to remote
>-The day has just started (as opposed to the next day) likely TAYU 'this',
but _lero/ni_ sounds OK too.
>-Where has the year gone? TAYU this
>
>TG. the one designated/named. related to NC.
>-the President (of the u.s.) e karun 'the (specific) duke', also his
office/position
>-the Mississippi (river) use VORI 'river' plus name
>-the United States-- Some countries/regions use e...., others do not.
Cf. also purple people eater above. _E_ can be used with names of
celebrities and other famous/notorious folk, though in most cases it's
considered rather affected, or perhaps ironic, as when we Americans refer to
"The Donald"
>
>TH. the one considered the best, most fashionable (usually emphasized)
>-That is *the* restaurant in town.-- not possible; use a superlative
>
>TI. specified period of time
>-the dark ages -- E.... for specific, well defined periods, but optional
>-the seventies-- NO e.g. ri pehanaç 70 'in years 70'
>
>TJ. taken as a representative of the entire genus or type
>-I'm learning how to use the typewriter. NO
>-The cow is a domestic animal. NO
>
>TK. for an adjective used as a noun
>-the good, the beautiful, the true-- as philosophical abstracts, E...
simply for "the good one", "the beautiful one" IYA plus the adjective
>A/AN,SOME:
>
>AA. a certain one speaker has in mind.
>-I saw a burning house on the way to the store. NO
>-He has a nice car/some nice cars. NO
>-I'm going to marry a Swede. (in response to: what is the nationality of
>your fiancee?) NO: maporo cetre yam kaçin swede 'I'm going to marry with
person swede'
>
>AB. any one of them in existence
>-I need a girlfriend. NO
>-I'm going to marry a Swede. (in response to: In twenty years, what type of
>person will you marry?) Same as above, ...yam kaçin swede
>-I need some paint. NO (unstressed some; stressed some is another problem)
>
>AC. in copulas, equality NO
>-I am a doctor.
>-That is a harmless snake.
>-As a young girl she slacked off in school. anju yayinji....'when she was
young...'
>
>[NONE]:
>
>NA: a discrete amount of (for a non-count noun). (the word "some" can
always
>be used before the noun). NO
>-I need water.
>-We need rocks for this project.
>
>NB: generalizations, applying to all the members of a type of
>object/concept. NO
>-Gold is very valuable.
>-Guns are dangerous.
>-I really don't like stupid dogs.
>-He lacks intelligence.
>-Anger is a destructive emotion.
>-We really hate school.
>
>NC: proper nouns. related to TG. NO
>-Let's run away to Mexico. Depends on country name.....
>-Where is Main Street?
>-I don't speak Greek.
>
Kash seems to follow English in the indef. categories, but not so much
elsewhere.