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Re: causation particles

From:Garrett Jones <alkaline@...>
Date:Thursday, April 25, 2002, 22:08
> > i think your "li" is basically a factitive auxiliary > cum-resultive preposition.
that was quite a mouthful :) Mind to explain?
> however, i don't know any natlang doing what your lang does. > three natlangs i > know display a string of actions one after the other in their > chrono-logical > order and optionally end the string with "to become (into)" to > show result but > none of them details whether each strung action is tentative or > successful.
curious, what languages are these?
> plus the subject of your second verb is different from the subject of > the first verb. > however: > > your lang (Malat?) does like this:
it used to be called Malat, but i renamed it to Minyeva.
> le veka li zato i va > I talked (result) left CASE he > I talked, and as a result he left > and: > le li piko i va > I (result) dead CASE he > I did something to make him die > > note that substituting "(result") with "make" will make both sentences > englishish by making the second verb a factitive: > le veka li-zato (i) va. > i talk make-leave (IND) him. > and: > le li-piko (i) va. > i make-die (IND) him. > > however, i understand that "li" is different from the verb "to > make" becaue it > makes it clear that "to leave" is NOT the object of "to talk" but > its result. >
yeah that sounds right. "li" can be additionally used without a resulting state: le veka li i va. I talk (result) him. I talked to him, affecting him in some way. In this case it can't easily be translated to "make" because "make" requires a second verb to go with it.
> natlangs i know do like this: > i talk (result) make-leave him > or: > i talk (result) he leaves > (past is either an auxiliary before the verb or a final adverb)
on the surface, that last construction looks like Minyeva's.
> Tunu does like this: > i already talk-into making-unstay him. > kami atoli lale-nya kai-bingita kama. > and: > i make-unlive him. > kami akai-pengehi kama.
I'm curious, how would you say the following? "I made him kill me" It would be rendered into Minyeva as: le i va piko i zo I P-him dead P-(previous agent) the 'zo' word functions to refer back to 'le', the original agent. Additionally, tossing the 'li' word in there: le i va li piko i zo "I made him cause my death." or "I made him make me die." -- Garrett Jones http://www.alkaline.org