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Re: causation particles

From:Kala Tunu <kalatunu@...>
Date:Friday, April 26, 2002, 9:50
Garrett Jones <alkaline@...> wrote:
> i think your "li" is basically a factitive auxiliary > cum-resultive preposition. that was quite a mouthful :) Mind to explain? <<< :-) basically "li" expresses both "to make verb/to verbify/to verbize" and "[to verb up] into"--though "to make", "-ify" and "-ize" have different specialized meanings. like in your Minyeva, my Tunu verb system is based on agent, patient and focus. Tunu had independent tags such as your "li" and "i" but i was often mixing up the patient for the focus like in "to plant a garden with flowers" vs. "to plant flowers in the garden". so after a few months i ended up prefixing voices and suffixing prepositions so it became: "to plant a garden with flowers": tai-puti-nyu peche we-lotiloti [to] make-planted-in garden OBJ-flowers "to plant flowers in the garden": tai-puti lotiloti u-peche [to] make-planted flowers in-garden (hai)puti is a state verb meaning "to stand/get planted" that is not passive, like many base verbs in japanese and english are "mediopassive": (hai)chopi "to cook", (hai)paki "to change", etc. some european langs have translate them as reflexives: "se planter", "se cuire", "se changer".
curious, what languages are these? <<< the same ol' ones i keep rabitting on over: khmer, indonesian, japanese but there are plenty more i guess.
I'm curious, how would you say the following? "I made him kill me" It would be rendered into Minyeva as: le i va piko i zo I P-him dead P-(previous agent) the 'zo' word functions to refer back to 'le', the original agent. Additionally, tossing the 'li' word in there: le i va li piko i zo "I made him cause my death." or "I made him make me die." <<< i see. i can't move tags around in Tunu like you do with minyeva: Kami ataipengehi kami/haki wokama. I make-killed me/self by-him. "haki" refers to the subject, not to the agent like "zo" does apparently. both kai- and tai- prefixes make a factitive but they're different: kai- = to make (someone) verb tai- = to make (someone) be verbed (hai-)pengehi--to die kai-pengehi--to make die = to kill nai-pengehi--to be killed tai-pengehi--to make (someone) be killed that works the same with transitive verbs: (hai-)tula--to give nai-tula--to be given tai-tula--to make (something) be given kai-(tai-)tula--to make (someone) give (something) kai- is the "hard form"--"kita yakoku"--of hai- and tai- is the hard form of nai-, which is the "soft form"--"kita yakongoku"--of tai- and vice versa :-) mathias _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: