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Re: Verbal Inflection for Formality

From:Roger Mills <rfmilly@...>
Date:Friday, June 23, 2006, 18:23
Eldin Raigmore wrote:

We wrote:
> >The analogue, as I conceive it would be if Eur. languages had a whole > >nother set of vocab. and endings used in the polite mode-- > > It was my impression that Javanese actually worked that way. Was that > impression wrong?
Different vocab. yes; different endings (or other affixes), no.
> >Now: I am not sure, since the occasion never arose, whether one would say > >_(1) buku itu ditulis Pak Suharto_ OR (2)buku itu Pak Suharto tulis in > >direct address., but I strongly suspect it's (2), since the rule is "In > >passive, a 1st or 2nd pers. agent goes before the verb." > > > >Maybe Yahya Abdal-Aziz can answer this....? Suppose you're talking to a > >General or Governor, and you want to say: "The problem that (you) have > >mentioned..." This would require a "passive" construction: would you say > >"So'alnya yang Pak Jendral sebut..." or "So'alnya yang disebut Pak > >Jendral..." ???Enquiring minds want to know.
Yahya did answer this, and upon due consideration, I've decided If not remembered) that treating 2d pers. referent nouns as 3d. pers. would be best. So "Pak Suharto, Pak Jendral" would come after the di- form of the verb in my exs. He also said that in Malaysian, it's OK to use a di-form + "oleh [1st/2nd pronoun] (so "...ditulis oleh saya/kamu" is OK there) but I'm pretty sure an Indonesian schoolmarm would give you a whack with the ruler if you said that there.
> >
[sole of the foot]> >I simply don't know enough Jav. to say; for Malay/Indo. one would have to
> >scour written works, esp. old ones, to see how it's handled. >
Yahya gave a similar ex. using humble "hamba Tuan" (slave (of) master = I), so I suppose it would also be "sole-of-the-foot + your" = "I" too. I also seem to recall there's an (old royal) usage of "hulun" 'head' for "I (superior to inferior)"