Help on Verbs...

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> Yeah, I was looking at some of these languages, and behold, within the
> verb sections, I immediately get confused as to what all these tenses
> are, and these mood things, and such..if anyone knows of a website where
> I could get like, explanations of what different tenses mean, it would
> be much appreciated...like what it means when a tense is 'perfect'
Well, I'll try to help you as best as I can, considering the verb is the
most complicated part of speech.

Verbs in most languages have markings for relationships to other parts of
the sentence.  In Indo-European langs such as English, French, Latin, et al.
there is only subject-agreement, but other languages this includes subject
and object and further arguments.  There is a hierarchy to this.  No human
language has been found to have object-agreement without subject-agreement.
Similarly there is no human language with indirect object-agreement without
object-agreement and subject-agreement.  Usually the number of these parts
of speech is included, but I'm not sure if that's a universal or not like
(the difference between we and I-note this feature can also be represented
solely by pronouns).

Some languages exhibit tense.  Strictly speaking, tense just involves time.
The verb tenses you listed also involve aspect (see below) as do many of the
14 "tenses" in French.  You would think that there would be just three, but
some languages just have past and non-past, and some have near past, near
future, long ago past, etc.  Keep in mind that not all languages have
temporal distinctions.

Most languages (I'm a little afraid to say all) have aspect.  Aspect deals
the completedness of the action.  In Indo-European langs, this is usually a
distinction between imperfect (incomplete) [English roughly 'to be' +
<verb>ing] and perfect (completed) [English 'to have' + past participle].
In this way, languages that don't have tenses still can express when things
happen.  But once again aspect is not limited to just imperfect and perfect.
There's also iterative (repeatedly), terminative (to stop doing), inceptive
(to start doing), and many others.  Native American langs probably have the
most number of aspects.  As you can tell English handles these shades of
meaning either through adverbs or through a verbal construction like the
compound "tenses."

Mood tells the speaker's attitude.  Most of the sentences I've written have
been in the indicative mood, used for straight facts.  The subjunctive,
mentioned in the French thread, is used to wishes, doubts, hopes, things of
that nature.  In French, the subjunctive generally only appears in
subordinate clauses, and is gradually dying, as it has in English (except
for some set phrases).  Most of English equivalents to mood are modal
auxiliaries:  must, should, would, for example.

Finally, there is voice.  Voice tells you who's acting on who.  Most of the
sentences in this post are in active voice where the subject acts on the
object.  There is also the passive, a voice I was taught to avoid, but don't
as you can see from the earlier part of this sentence (was taught is
passive).  In passive, the surface subject is actually being acted upon.
(Compare he hit the boy [active] to the boy was hit by the boy [passive])
There is a middle voice (usually translated like I get myself taught, or
something like that), a causative voice (I cause to learn), and an
antipassive voice, which is difficult to explain, and would probably only
occur if you have an ergative language (if you don't know what that means,
don't worry).  There may be more voices, but I haven't heard of any others.
And not all languages differentiate into all this voices (English doesn't).

So that's the basics on verbs. I hope I've been helpful, not redundant, and
correct (if anyone sees mistakes-feel free to comment).

-Doug
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<TITLE>Re: &nbsp;Help on Verbs...</TITLE>
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<TT>&gt; Yeah, I was looking at some of these languages, and behold, within=
 the<BR>
&gt; verb sections, I immediately get confused as to what all these tenses<=
BR>
&gt; are, and these mood things, and such..if anyone knows of a website whe=
re<BR>
&gt; I could get like, explanations of what different tenses mean, it would=
<BR>
&gt; be much appreciated...like what it means when a tense is 'perfect'<BR>
<BR>
Well, I'll try to help you as best as I can, considering the verb is the<BR=
>
most complicated part of speech.<BR>
<BR>
Verbs in most languages have markings for relationships to other parts of<B=
R>
the sentence. &nbsp;In Indo-European langs such as English, French, Latin, =
et al.<BR>
there is only subject-agreement, but other languages this includes subject<=
BR>
and object and further arguments. &nbsp;There is a hierarchy to this. &nbsp=
;No human<BR>
language has been found to have object-agreement without subject-agreement.=
<BR>
Similarly there is no human language with indirect object-agreement without=
<BR>
object-agreement and subject-agreement. &nbsp;Usually the number of these p=
arts<BR>
of speech is included, but I'm not sure if that's a universal or not like<B=
R>
(the difference between we and I-note this feature can also be represented<=
BR>
solely by pronouns).<BR>
<BR>
Some languages exhibit tense. &nbsp;Strictly speaking, tense just involves =
time.<BR>
The verb tenses you listed also involve aspect (see below) as do many of th=
e<BR>
14 &quot;tenses&quot; in French. &nbsp;You would think that there would be =
just three, but<BR>
some languages just have past and non-past, and some have near past, near<B=
R>
future, long ago past, etc. &nbsp;Keep in mind that not all languages have<=
BR>
temporal distinctions.<BR>
<BR>
Most languages (I'm a little afraid to say all) have aspect. &nbsp;Aspect d=
eals<BR>
the completedness of the action. &nbsp;In Indo-European langs, this is usua=
lly a<BR>
distinction between imperfect (incomplete) [English roughly 'to be' +<BR>
&lt;verb&gt;ing] and perfect (completed) [English 'to have' + past particip=
le].<BR>
In this way, languages that don't have tenses still can express when things=
<BR>
happen. &nbsp;But once again aspect is not limited to just imperfect and pe=
rfect.<BR>
There's also iterative (repeatedly), terminative (to stop doing), inceptive=
<BR>
(to start doing), and many others. &nbsp;Native American langs probably hav=
e the<BR>
most number of aspects. &nbsp;As you can tell English handles these shades =
of<BR>
meaning either through adverbs or through a verbal construction like the<BR=
>
compound &quot;tenses.&quot;<BR>
<BR>
Mood tells the speaker's attitude. &nbsp;Most of the sentences I've written=
 have<BR>
been in the indicative mood, used for straight facts. &nbsp;The subjunctive=
,<BR>
mentioned in the French thread, is used to wishes, doubts, hopes, things of=
<BR>
that nature. &nbsp;In French, the subjunctive generally only appears in<BR>
subordinate clauses, and is gradually dying, as it has in English (except<B=
R>
for some set phrases). &nbsp;Most of English equivalents to mood are modal<=
BR>
auxiliaries: &nbsp;must, should, would, for example.<BR>
<BR>
Finally, there is voice. &nbsp;Voice tells you who's acting on who. &nbsp;M=
ost of the<BR>
sentences in this post are in active voice where the subject acts on the<BR=
>
object. &nbsp;There is also the passive, a voice I was taught to avoid, but=
 don't<BR>
as you can see from the earlier part of this sentence (was taught is<BR>
passive). &nbsp;In passive, the surface subject is actually being acted upo=
n.<BR>
(Compare he hit the boy [active] to the boy was hit by the boy [passive])<B=
R>
There is a middle voice (usually translated like I get myself taught, or<BR=
>
something like that), a causative voice (I cause to learn), and an<BR>
antipassive voice, which is difficult to explain, and would probably only<B=
R>
occur if you have an ergative language (if you don't know what that means,<=
BR>
don't worry). &nbsp;There may be more voices, but I haven't heard of any ot=
hers.<BR>
And not all languages differentiate into all this voices (English doesn't).=
<BR>
<BR>
So that's the basics on verbs. I hope I've been helpful, not redundant, and=
<BR>
correct (if anyone sees mistakes-feel free to comment).<BR>
<BR>
-Doug </TT>
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