Re: Vocab 2.3 and 2.4
|From:||Mike Ellis <nihilsum@...>|
|Date:||Friday, November 15, 2002, 5:05|
Aidan Grey zdua:
>topic: genitive relatives (or whatever the "whose..." clauses are called)
I've got a pronoun |nure| "[the one] who ... (fill in the blank)", whose
genitive case |nurea| (irreg.) would mean "whose ... (fill in the blank)",
and this could be used. But it creates subclauses, and I try to keep Rhean
flexible. So there is also a way to express this without subclauses. I have
a suffix |na| which turns a verb (and any clause before it) into a modifier.
I won't give both types for each example, but I will use both.
>1. presidentmezüzemir (existing; from mez+üze+emir "first+over+authority")
>The president whose office is oval has moved to the country.Tai jais'a yacmus' ce'sna mezüzemir u rifiat zaiprawais'.
his office oval be-3SG-NA presdident to country-DAT move-3SG.PAST
Two ways of looking at this: "The president, who his-office-is-oval, has
moved to the country" OR "The his-office-is-oval president has moved to the
And I guess by country you meant "countryside".
>(I swear this juxtaposition was random)Tan k'rudam; I believe it.
>3. trapredanz (redanak to trap sthg.)
>The hunter whose trap was empty is angry.Ak'otnik, nurea redanz wos'igios', irekec' c'e.
hunter, who-GEN trap empty-BE-3SG.PAST, angry be-3SG.
>4. operateprofsek (use, as a machine; NEW)
ordnac'en herak (perform surgery; NEW)
>He operated on her.Tant ordnac'en herais'.
her-DAT surgery-ACC perform-3SG.PAST.
>He knows how to operate a well/pump.Midak' profsekrhot s'izne.
pump(-ACC) operate-method(-ACC) know-3SG.
(Notice how |midak'| is in the accusative, being the object of |profsek|,
even though the latter has become a noun and is itself in the accusative!)
>Whose idea was that?Er kurea boda as'e?
that who-GEN idea be-3SG.PAST
This |kurea| correlates with the aforementioned |nurea|, but the former is
used to ask a question.
>The girl whose dress is torn blames you.Tai üpko jeskibza c'es'na des'o lon erhuc'es'.
her dress tear-PASS be-3SG-NA girl you-ACC blame-3SG.
>7. descriptivegarazekbas' (full of describing)
>The guy whose writing is very descriptive will probably win awards.Angarazekbas'ie ekiras'na jio medaluin sawac'ie gzamir.
very-descriptive-ADV write-3SG-NA guy award-PL.ACC probably win-3sg.FUT
Got sick of using the other structures so I said, "...who writes very
>8. uprightvertic'ni (yes...)
>It stood upright against the wall.Karsto lundom vertic'nem tac'ais'.
against wall-INST upright-ADV stand-3sg.PAST
>9. everythingpaikui ("everywhat")
>Everything is as messed up!Paikui gondov!
>The old woman who owns that cat is really mean.O eya bas dovruas'na olec'eno anhelis c'e.
OBJ that cat(-ACC) own-3SG-NA old-woman very-mean be-3SG
>I can barely see my own hand in front of my face.Mair yai c'aurom yai pivan mirek ülefie mu rem.
in-front my face-INST my hand-ACC see-INF almost NEG can-1SG.
"I almost can't..."
>topic: how to disambiguate (if at all) 3rd person referentsanswer: worse ambiguity than English. Imagine all the ambiguous pronoun
below, then remove the gender from the third person! But gender CAN be
specified in pronouns with prefixes jor- (female) and ban- (male). These can
be stuck on ANY person of pronoun: |banliz| "you guys". Just which argument
the pronoun refers to can't really be shown; where conflict arises, you'd
have to describe in just like in English ("no, I mean the guy who OWNED the
brick gave it to the guy who didn't"). AND of course, normally there would
be no subject pronoun used at all. Rhean also tends to eliminate possessives
more often than not; here you'll see more of them in one place than anywhere
Here, I'll indicate the gender from the examples in parentheses.
>She owed her her life.(Jor)tak'em (jor)tai enoc'a taar fadyok as'e.
Her-INST her(adj) life her-GEN debt be-3SG.PAST.
A bit odd. The posessive "her" and the genitive of "her" are different due
to an idiomatic construction in which "By X, Y is the debt of Z" means "Z
owes Y to X".
>Their journey to visit their friends was long.Tei ipuk ver tei druz'in s'edrueku nagya as'e.
their journey for their friend-PL.ACC visit-INF-DAT long be-3SG.PAST.
>He gave his brick to him.(Ban)tai kurman (ban)tant kudais'.
his brick-ACC him-DAT give-3SG.PAST
>4. merrytemos' (having fun)
>She was merry all day at the festival.(Jor)ta u spravlarvom yumk'u temos'/az'das as'e.
she at festival-INST all-day merry/drunk be-3SG.PAST
>He failed to save him.(Ban)tan k'abrak ofkepios'.
him-ACC save-INF(-ACC) fail-3SG.PAST
>He approved his request.(Ban)tai canomuk odabrios'.
his request(-ACC) approve-3SG.PAST
>Their jaws were bruised from fighting their enemies.Nap tei vig'in börekom tei köri agpodletibza as'ez.
by their enemy-PL.ACC fight-INF.INST their jaw-PL bruise-PASS be-3PL.PAST
>He thought his hardship too great to bear.Du tai spako skij oonigidve dovlavak mu rios' k'rudais'.
THAT his hardship too big-be-GER bear NEG able-3SG.PAST think-3SG.PAST
This is used as in "whatever I do, the kid has to do too." The following
sentence in Rhean would use a construction more like "regardless of what she
>Whatever she did, she was not happy.Mu slic'ad kuin herais', mu sugiigios'.
NEG consequence what-ACC do-3SG.PAST, NEG happy-be-3SG.PAST
>10. goodsvendik (construed singular)
>Their goods were locked on their wagon.Tei vendik i c'arbom gösluibza as'e.
their goods in wagon-INST lock-PASS be-3PL.SG
I counter-endorse everything below this line.
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