Re: Conlang Lang Quicky At work
|From:||Sally Caves <scaves@...>|
|Date:||Wednesday, November 24, 2004, 16:36|
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elliott Lash" <erelion12@...>
> Sitting around at work with nothing to do for a
> change, I came up with a small verbal system for a
> small conlang.
> The verbs are divided into two groups: Volitional and
> Non-Volitional. Volitional means that the subject
> somehow willingly initiates the action. Non-Volitional
> means that the subject performs the action but does
> not necessarily willingly do so. Most of the time the
> non-volitional verbs are things like "fall" or "dream"
> or "sleep" Etc. Sometimes, I suppose, they could be
> normal verbs but performed under duress.
This is becoming quite popular, recently, ain't it? :) :) :)
> Anyways...The two groups are only distinguished in the
> 3rd person. Other than that, the forms of the verbs
> are the same.
Wouldn't a speaker like to inform her auditors that she does something
volitionally or not? This is essential to Teonaht culture. It marks the
difference between an agent and an experiencer, a doer and a drifter, a doer
and a done to, a champ or a wimp. Also, the speaker can inform his auditors
that he is not responsible, or he is a victim of circumstances, or that he
saw something unwittingly, that he wasn't spying, that he wasn't
eavesdropping, that he is innocent of malice or malfeasance.
> Furthermore, there are two classes of endings for all
> verbs (transitive at least), The pronominal objective
> and the nominal objective endings. The pronominal
> objective endings bundle up together a subject marker
> with an object marker that varies for person. The
> nominal objective endings have a subject marker with
> an implied object marker.
I really like the idea of a pronominal objective ending on a transitive
> Intransitive verbs use the "nominal objective
> conjugation" endings but they obviously dont imply any
> object.... I think it's time for examples:
> Transitive Volitional Nom. Objective:
> root: band- "bring"
> infinitive: bêz /be~s/
> band "I bring X" bendyz "we"
> bêrj "You bring X" /be~Z/ bêrjs /be~rS/ "you"
> bans "He brings X /bants/ bendysj "they"
> Transitive Non-Volitional Nom. Objective:
> band "I" /bant/ bendyz /bend1s/
> bêrj "You" bêrjs
> bêzen "He brings X" /be~z@n/ bêzez /be~z@s/
> Transitive Pronominal Objective:
> bandut "I bring you" bendyst "we bring you"
> bandun "I bring him" bendyzen "we bring him"
And these mean "I bring you," as in "take you to a party," and not "I bring
to you a cupcake"? Do you have pronominal indirect objects?
> bêrjem "You bring me" bêrjsem "you bring me"
> bêrjen "You bring him" bêrjen "you bring him"
> bandum "He brings me" bendysjem "they bring me"
> banst "He brings you" bendysjt "they bring you"
> bandun "He brings him" bendysjen "they bring him"
> (the object above is singular, the plural endings are:
> -ta "you"
> -ma "we"
> -na "them" (with appropriate vowels before hand)
Below you imply that you are conflating non-volitional verbs with
intransitives. How would you say "he eats" in your language? It's not
non-volitional, nor is it transitive, really.
> Intransitive verb:
> drem- "to sleep"
> infinitive: drimj
> drem "I sleep" drimjyz "we sleep"
> drimjer "you sleep" drimjers "you sleep"
> dremuk "he sleeps" drimycj "they sleep"
> As you can see, the third person has a separate
> non-volitional ending when there is no possible
> I'm sure that these endings can be shunted between
> non-volitional and volitional verbs to create
> interesting effects, I'm just not sure how that'd
> happen at the moment.
In Teonaht you have vt, vi, nt, ni. Volitional transitives (I watch the
baby, I kick the ball), volitional intransitives (I eat, I stand up, I
consider), non-volitional transitives (I smell the garbage, I saw the
ghost), non-volitional intransitives (I sleep). And a non-volitional can be
turned into a volitional by dropping the non-volitional ending, so that
"dream" can be "to plan, to wish for, to hope, volitionally, or even to
engage in lucid dreaming."
> That's all, really...I just wanted to share. I have
> the following verbs so far:
Thanks! This sounds interesting, and tinted with a variety of language
> aliog- "strike", aliezj "to strike"
> band- "bring", bêz "to bring"
> vicji- "conquer", vicji "to conquer"
> seren- "cook', serinj "to cook"
> flet- "tell", flis "to tell"
> zap- "fall", zepj 'to fall"
> drem- "sleep", drimj "to sleep"
> Some Examples:
> Mut seren zdisa "I am cooking the meal"
> mu-t seren zdis-a
> I-NOM cook-1s meal-ABS.def
> (split-ergative, 1,2 person is nominative/accusative,
> 3 is ergative)
> Zdisa serenuk "The meel is cooking"
> zdis-a seren-uk
> meal-ABS.def cook-NVol.3s
> Dapa seres v zdisurem
> "Father is cooking in the kitchen"
> dap-a seres v zdisur-em
> father-Abs.def cook-Vol.3s in kitchen-prep.
> Depjet seres zdis
> "Father is cooking a meal"
> dap-jet seres zdis-0
> father-ERG cook meal-Abs
> I hope that all makes sense.
Niffodyr tweluenrem lis teuim an
"The gods have retractible claws."