Re: Religion of Light was LWII: The Euroclones Strike Back!

Quoting Costentin Cornomorus <elemtilas@...>:

> --- "Thomas R. Wier" <trwier@...> wrote:
> > (I forget which), only did so because he was
> > under the impression that this weird little group was
> > just one of countless indigenous Daoist sects,
>
> Considering that it was touted as the religion of
> the "Great Western Empire", I rather doubt he
> thought they were indigenous.
I don't have my book with me, but there are several reasons
to doubt that they would play up being from, much less call
themselves representatives of, the "Great Western Empire",
at this initial meeting:

(1) Presumably this is a translation of _Daqin_, which -- correct
me if I'm wrong -- means little more than "The West", and the
Tang dynasty itself came from Western China (whether or not that
is equated with "the West" is a different matter).
(2) The Nestorian Christians had been brutally oppressed by
the Byzantine Empire, and were essentially kicked out of the empire,
only to be welcomed by the Sassanids, where they were later also
brutally oppressed, and from which they fled to Central
Asia, thence to China;
(3) The Nestorians knew that the recently installed Tang dynasty
claimed descent from Laozi, and that they provided political
patronage to all Daoist monasteries above all other religions.

The question is not who *they* thought they were, but
who *Taizong* thought they were. I am suggesting that it is
unlikely Taizong had much of an inkling that they were foreign,
given that he had IIRC but one brief audience with some members.

> Anyway, I doubt
> this religion could pass as orthodox in any way -
> it seems to occupy a middle ground of sorts.
Oh, certainly.  I mean, they had *six* commandments.

> > and he was interested in hyping the credentials of the
> > person he claimed as ancestor, Laozi.
>
> True.
>
> > When they received
> > an imperial audience, it's clear they played up
> > the
> > similarities between Daoism and (Nestorian)
> > Christianity hoping for precisely that effect.
>
> Well, I don't see any particular problem with
> that. They continued to have such favour for
> quite a while - plenty of time in which to
> discern anything that would cause their fall from
> favour.
And indeed, they did fall from favor, IIRC during Wu Zetian's
reign, who also oppressed Daoists, the only Tang ruler to do
so.

 =========================================================================
Thomas Wier            "I find it useful to meet my subjects personally,
Dept. of Linguistics    because our secret police don't get it right
University of Chicago   half the time." -- octogenarian Sheikh Zayed of
1010 E. 59th Street     Abu Dhabi, to a French reporter.
Chicago, IL 60637