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Re: Some natlang questions?

From:Justin Mansfield <jdm314@...>
Date:Thursday, July 12, 2001, 7:08
--- In conlang@y..., Marcus Smith <smithma@U...> wrote:
> Danny wrote: > > >Second, how do you pronounce /ti/, /di/, /si/ and /zi/ in Japanese?
I see
> >them > >so often written as chi, ji and shi, but I hear something more like
[ci],
> >[Ji], > >[Ci]. > > Unfortunately, there aren't any SAMPA characters for these sounds.
They
> involve a alveolo-palatal fricatives, rather than the postalveolar > fricatives of English. In IPA these are c and z with a loop at the
lower
> right end. So, to make up some symbols on the fly, the voicless > alveolo-palatal is [C\] and the voiced version is [Z\].
In X-SAMPA the symbols are <s\> and <z\>. See http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/sampa/x-sampa.htm I also used X-SAMPA for my previous post about Hebrew, so if you were confused by that, check out that URL. JDM ps. a friend of mine made a wonderful IPA > X-SAMPA chart that we use allthe time on IRC. Let me see if he still has it up on his website.
> This gives /ti/ > [tC\i], /di/ and /zi/ [dZ\i], and /si/ [C\i]. You do, in fact, hear
[Ci] in
> Japanese, but that is for the sequence /hi/. > > > > Marcus Smith > > Unfortunately, or luckily, > no language is tyrannically consistent. > All grammars leak. > -- Edward Sapir

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Lars Henrik Mathiesen <thorinn@...>