Re: _na Ukraine_ vs _v Ukraine_ (fuit: Origins of the Gay Bearded Left-Handed Lithuanian Conlanger)

On Jan 28, 2008 11:29 AM, Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@...> wrote:
> On 27.1.2008 Sai Emrys wrote:
>  >  _na Ukraine_ vs _v Ukraine_ in Russian political
>  >  language.
>
> Could you briefly explain that, offlist if you prefer?
AFAIK it's not published yet, so I'll be fairly brief (her paper goes
into far more detail).

Essentially, _na_ and _v_ both translate very approximately to the
preposition 'in'. Both used of countries and locations, by a somewhat
complex ruleset.

However, _v_ conveys the idea of an enclosure, whereas _na_ does not
(and _na_ also means 'on top of'). So historically, _v_ has been used
for 'in (a governmental entity)' and _na_ for 'in (a geographic
entity)'. (Very ish. Like I said, it's complex.)

The historical usage is _na Ukraine_ - but that was pre-independence and such.

This has evidently become a big political correctness issue, with
grammarians, nationalists on both sides, historical revisionism (even
of nationalist authors who used _na_!), circumlocutions by politicians
wanting to make nice with both, discussion of which is the 'correct'
version, and all the rest. Plus, the choice of _na_ vs _v_ directly
cues several other grammatical choices, so it spills out.

As I said, I found her paper to be both hilarious and interesting.
(Which, to be honest, is my response to most reviews of
grammarian-type activity.) I have no idea where she's publishing it; I
just got to see (and help edit a little bit) a final draft while she
was visiting.

If you want to contact her, the name is Julia Krivoruchko; she's
currently at Cambridge for some kind of judeo-greek project (of which
I confess I understand rather little).

- Sai

Reply