Re: USAGE: Dutch v or f (was: Grimm's Law)

> The original question related to the f/v variation in German spelling
(where
> neither one seems specifically to mark loanwords, though a large majority
of
> v-listings are verbs with ver- or vor-) vs. the similar variation in
Dutch,
> where "f" _does_ seem to predominate in loans-- except some few that don't
> _obviously_ seem to be loans.  I was hoping some of our Dutch
> correspondents would enlighten us.
I'll do my best, though I am sceptical...

> (I know little about developments from common Gmc. > modern
> German, but note
> that both Vater and Fisch etc. had "f-" in Gothic (of course it
> didn't have
> a letter "v"), both < IE *p)-- so somewhere along the way, German spelling
> seems to have got a bit mixed up......There are obvious loans in both "f"
> and "v" listings in my Germ. dictionary; they tend to follow ""f
> ~ v" in the
> source language)
>
> Uncertain (native? loans? dialect forms?) Dutch words with initial "f":
>
> falen 'to fail' (possibly French?, cf. Sp. fallecer?);
falen <- faillir (french) <- fallere (latin)

> fel 'fierce' (cf. Engl. fell-- 'one fell swoop'?),
fel <- fel (old french) <- *fello (vulgar latin)
possibly from gaelic "feall" (treason)

> fladderen 'to flutter',
fladderen <- fletharôn (old dutch: "to beat with ones wings"). Related to
words like "vlerk" (bat wing) and "vleermuis" (bat). Note that both are
written with 'v'!

> flauw 'insipid, silly, faint' (Fr. again? cf. Span. flaco?),
Origin uncertain, possibly from germanic "thlêwa", connected to irish
"tlaith" (soft) and cymric "tlawd" (arm). The initial "f" may also point to
a Frisian origin.

> fokken 'to breed (animals)',
Origin unknown to me

> fuif 'spree',
Recent addition to the Dutch vocabulary, student language, origin unclear

> fuiven 'to revel',
See above

> fut 'spirit, pep'-- this last looks like it wants to be a Kash
word....adds to dictionary  ;-)

Late dutch, probably originated from "vort" or "voort" (forward).

(all etymologies according to the Dutch etymological dictionary by dr. J de
Vries, revised edition by dr P.L.M. Tummers).

Maarten

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