Re: Allophone Problem

Hi!

Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
> On Fri, 8 Jun 2007 03:46:20 -0400, John Vertical wrote:
> > I actually recall reading that the final devoicing of stops in German is
> > only a
> > near-merger - that there's some slight phonetic cue that's basically
> > impossible
> > to hear, but appears regularly when recordings are examined rigorously.
>
> It is - at least in my idiolect - like this:
>
> Voiceless stops are not only voiceless, they are also aspirated (except
> in clusters).  In word-final position, voiced stops are devoiced, but
> unlike voiceless stops they are not aspirated.  So you have
>...
I find this surprising!

Actually, I doubt there is, in the vast majority of German dialects,
any difference of final -/d/ and final -/t/.  My dialect for one, I am
sure, has a perfect merger.  If I don't know a spelling, it is
impossible for me to judge how to write that word without checking
related forms with a following vowel.

Given that spelling mistakes are made often and that children at
school are taught to check derived forms suggests that usually, people
have a full merger.  I think I have never heard or read about a
difference in German between final devoiced and final voiceless
phones.

There are many dialects out there so you never know whether *some*
retain a difference, but I am especially surprised because I know that
you come from quite close to my place of growing up.

Are there any papers supporting you about this difference in German?
Analyses of recordings or something like that?

The same question goes to John: can you recall where you read that the
final devoicing was only a near-merger?  I find it surprising that a
phoneme difference can be found in recordings failing to be noticed by
native ears and even native internal analyses of one's own utterances,
where you'd basically have to know you're making a difference to
actually make that difference.

**Henrik

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