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Re: THEORY: Cases of Core Arguments in Clauses with Three Core Arguments

From:Rodlox R <rodlox@...>
Date:Thursday, June 30, 2005, 23:56
> >Hello, everybody, I have more questions about tri-valent clauses. >This time, its about dative, benefactive/malefactive, and ablative cases.
*sits down to take notes*
>Suppose the Pope pays Leonardo 100 ducats to paint a portrait of the >Duchess for the Duke.
okay. (one supposes that the Duke has no money of his own, though). :)
>But, in a lot of languages, "Leonardo" in sentence 1) would be in the same >case as "the Pope" in sentence 2). In these languages, this is a kind of >"dative-ablative" case.
okay.
>(There is a difference between that kind of ablative and the "Leonardo came >from Florence, not from Milan" kind of ablative.)
ah...I didn't know that. seriously.
>Now consider the sentences >3) "The Pope paid Leonardo for the Duke." >4) "The Pope paid 100 ducats for the Duke."
guess he wanted a non-Cardinal to be a serving boy. :)
>But, in a lot of languages, "the Duke" in sentences 3), 4), and 5) would be >in the same case as "Leonardo" in sentence 1). In these languages, this is >a kind of "dative-benefactive" case.
again, I didn't know that.
>(I don't think the "malefactive" case is grammatically different from the >"benefactive" case; is it? Maybe someone knows of a counter-example.)
>---- > >Finally; >Once Leonardo finishes the painting, whose painting is it?
linguistically, or legally? :)
>Is it the Pope's painting, because he paid for it, and it was painted at >his behest? >Is it Leonardo's painting, because he created it? >Is it the Duchess's painting, because it is her likeness, and she sat for >it? >Is it the Duke's painting, because it was done for his benefit, as a gift >for him? >Is it all of the above?
can it be all but Leonardo's?
>Anyone who doesn't want to answer any of those questions, consider this one >(not original with me -- sorry, don't know who thought of it first) > >If a house-fly should lose its wings, would we English-speakers have to >call it a house-walk?
[this is the] first time I heard it! and it would then be a flightless fly, or a flightless housefly. I hope that helps.
>Thanks to anyone who answers. > >Tom H.C. in MI > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com