Re: Help: Zhyler ECM/Raising Verbs (Longish)

On Apr 5, 2004, at 9:16 AM, David Peterson wrote:
> << Seoant rachoaraso bhadoro "I-want thy-eating-ACC
> the-bread-ACC-ADJ-ACC"
>  Anyone thinking this is a good idea?>>
>
> I'm not sure I follow exactly...  But let me say that you could have
> two different strategies: One for nominal objects, and one for
> pronominal objects.  You could also turn "bread" into an adverb.  Have
> you got an oblique case?  You could make the objects of
> nominalizations oblique.
> You could have a different type of nominalizer for just this instance
> (like /pag-/ in Cebuano).  Lots of languages have different
> nominalizers for different things.
> Hmm...  This is a sticky, sticky issue.  Good thing it pops up on the
> list every so often so we can all worry about it in healthy dosages.
> -David
Sorry i haven't been paying too much attention to this thread (my eyes
sort of glaze over when they come across pages of grammar, i'm more of
a phonology person), but i thought i'd just throw in an AFMCL, maybe it
might help.

This is how Rokbeigalmki handles "i want you to eat fish" (no word for
'bread' yet):

aza-shus eshii-manoi sha'yagul.

AZ|A-SHUS ESH|II-MANOI SHA'YAGUL

i|(present-immediate)-wanting you(obj.)|(future)-eating (dir.obj.)'fish

|aza-shus| is a normal verb form: 'i want' (in the present-immediate
tense)
That's why the subject-tense complex has a |Z| - the pronoun is in the
subject form.

|eshii-manoi| on the other hand uses an *object*-tense complex, with
the pronoun (|esh| instead of |ez|) in the non-subject form.

|sha'yagul| is just "(a) fish" with the direct object marker.


Gabwe i think would use something like:
(without the actual Gabwe words)

Fish-eat-You Them-want-I

Gabwe uses only OVS order, so this means: 'you eat fish, i want it' or
'i want (you eat fish)'
Although i guess that's pretty much the same as ideas other people have
thrown around.


-Stephen (Steg)
  "...and so Moses smote Pharoah upside the head
   with the staff of God, wherewith he hath done wonders."
      ~ not quite the bible.  or the haggada for that matter.