Re: the verbal system of cein

--- daniel andreasson <daniel.andreasson@...>
wrote:
> * The verbal system of Cein *
>
> There are two types of verbs in Cein, basic and
> derived. Basic verbs
> are typically monosyllabic and end in a consonant.
> Derived verbs
> are typically disyllabic and end in a vowel. A
> special type of
> derived verbs are the ya-verbs, which in Quenya
> ended in -ya.
   In Aelya, the -ya verbs collapse with the basic
verbs (I'm thinking of using strong and weak) after i
affection and fricativization.

> The difference between the basic and the derived
> verbs is seen in
> the past tense where derived verbs get an _-an_
> suffix, and the
> basic verbs get a nasal infix (or at least derived
> from a nasal
> infix).
   Same as in Aelya, as it stands at the moment.


> There are five tenses, two of which are actually a
> mix of a tense
> and an aspect: present continuative, aorist, past,
> perfect and
> future. There's also an infinitive and an
> imperative.
  I'm planning on expanding the tense/mood inventory,
and perhaps making Aelya a little more synthetic. Verb
systems seem to be one of the most unstable forms
historically (Romance language verbal systems differ
greatly from their parent Latin, frex) and synthetic
patterns are very common in the Celtic langs:
  Welsh: Dw i'n dysgu Cymraeg : I'm learning Welsh
    lit. I am at learning Welsh
  Irish: Tá mé ag obair : I'm working.
    lit. I am at working

  I also plan to do something with the tá/is or
ser/estar distinction which I think is somewhat
present in Quenya.

>      BASIC          DERIVED          DERIVED -YA
>      ceth- 'say'    toll- 'summon'   meid- 'put an
> end to'
>
> INF  cedidd         tyllidd          meid(idd)
> PRS  cuid           toll             meid
> AOR  cyd            tyll             meid
> PST  centh          tollan           meidan
> PRF  eguid          utull            efuid
> alt  guididd        dullidd          fuididd
> FUT  cedow          tullow           meidow
> alt  lleil cedidd   lleil tyllidd    lleil meid(idd)
> IMP  cead           toll             meid
> alt  a gead         a doll           a feid
   Ooo! I like the loss of the augment in the
aletrnate perfect. Here are the corresponding Aelya
forms:

  ceud 'say':
  pres: na e gceud (note: I made affection progressive
in the first syllable) lit. be at saying
  simple present (aorist): cud
  past: ceund -or- bhan e gceud (bhan being the past
of na, which may change)
  future: ceunda < OA ceundo -or- na e ndeilh ceud
lit. be at going say
  perfect: geidhe

  tolt 'summon':
  pres: na e dtolt
  simple pres: toelt
  past: toltan -or- bhan e dtolt
  future: tolta -or- na e ndeilh tolt
  perfect: doelthe

  meth 'put an end to':
  pres: na e meth
  simple pres: meith
  past: mend -or- bhan e meth
  future: menda -or- na e ndeilh meth
  perfect: bheithe

  I still have a bunch of work to do on the synthetic
forms, and what tenses would develop with Old Irish as
a model...


> I'm not sure which of the two perfect tense
> alternatives I
> will choose. Both are equally possible (from
> _equeetie_).
> Perhaps I could use one for the perfect and the
> other one may
> have developed into a pluperfect. What do you think?
  I like the divergence. I would go with the augmented
form as the pluperfect, but it's purely an aesthetic
opinion with no basis other than it sounds right to
me.

> Sometimes a
> particle _a_ (pronounced [@]) is added in front of
> the verb
> causing soft mutation.
  The particle is standard in Aelya: a gceud! Say! a
dtolt! a meth!


> I think this makes for an interesting verbal system.
> This
> means that I have to rework the pronominal system
> entirely
> since it was based on clitics attached to the verb,
> when all
> verb forms ended in a vowel, which they don't
> anymore. Oh well.
   Yeah, that's what i'm working with too. I'm
probably going to work with the similarities with the
Irish pronouns - -nye and mé for example. I tried
deriving with the clitic pronouns, but I'm not sure
whether I like it yet or not.

  I like it, though I do think there should be some
more tense/moods: we'll have to decide together what
to do with the 'nai' subjunctive stuff, for example.
And a complete set of perfects (plu-, present, and
future would be nice - or not). We should compare with
our target langs (your's is Welsh/Brithenig, mine is
Irish) and see what we find.

  I look forward to working on this together-ish!

    Aidan



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