Re: the verbal system of cein
|From:||Aidan Grey <frterminus@...>|
|Date:||Sunday, July 1, 2001, 19:56|
--- daniel andreasson <daniel.andreasson@...>
> * The verbal system of Cein *
> There are two types of verbs in Cein, basic and
> derived. Basic verbs
> are typically monosyllabic and end in a consonant.
> Derived verbs
> are typically disyllabic and end in a vowel. A
> special type of
> derived verbs are the ya-verbs, which in Quenya
> ended in -ya.
In Aelya, the -ya verbs collapse with the basic
verbs (I'm thinking of using strong and weak) after i
affection and fricativization.
> The difference between the basic and the derived
> verbs is seen in
> the past tense where derived verbs get an _-an_
> suffix, and the
> basic verbs get a nasal infix (or at least derived
> from a nasal
Same as in Aelya, as it stands at the moment.
> There are five tenses, two of which are actually a
> mix of a tense
> and an aspect: present continuative, aorist, past,
> perfect and
> future. There's also an infinitive and an
I'm planning on expanding the tense/mood inventory,
and perhaps making Aelya a little more synthetic. Verb
systems seem to be one of the most unstable forms
historically (Romance language verbal systems differ
greatly from their parent Latin, frex) and synthetic
patterns are very common in the Celtic langs:
Welsh: Dw i'n dysgu Cymraeg : I'm learning Welsh
lit. I am at learning Welsh
Irish: Tá mé ag obair : I'm working.
lit. I am at working
I also plan to do something with the tá/is or
ser/estar distinction which I think is somewhat
present in Quenya.
> BASIC DERIVED DERIVED -YA
> ceth- 'say' toll- 'summon' meid- 'put an
> end to'
> INF cedidd tyllidd meid(idd)
> PRS cuid toll meid
> AOR cyd tyll meid
> PST centh tollan meidan
> PRF eguid utull efuid
> alt guididd dullidd fuididd
> FUT cedow tullow meidow
> alt lleil cedidd lleil tyllidd lleil meid(idd)
> IMP cead toll meid
> alt a gead a doll a feid
Ooo! I like the loss of the augment in the
aletrnate perfect. Here are the corresponding Aelya
pres: na e gceud (note: I made affection progressive
in the first syllable) lit. be at saying
simple present (aorist): cud
past: ceund -or- bhan e gceud (bhan being the past
of na, which may change)
future: ceunda < OA ceundo -or- na e ndeilh ceud
lit. be at going say
pres: na e dtolt
simple pres: toelt
past: toltan -or- bhan e dtolt
future: tolta -or- na e ndeilh tolt
meth 'put an end to':
pres: na e meth
simple pres: meith
past: mend -or- bhan e meth
future: menda -or- na e ndeilh meth
I still have a bunch of work to do on the synthetic
forms, and what tenses would develop with Old Irish as
> I'm not sure which of the two perfect tense
> alternatives I
> will choose. Both are equally possible (from
> Perhaps I could use one for the perfect and the
> other one may
> have developed into a pluperfect. What do you think?
I like the divergence. I would go with the augmented
form as the pluperfect, but it's purely an aesthetic
opinion with no basis other than it sounds right to
> Sometimes a
> particle _a_ (pronounced [@]) is added in front of
> the verb
> causing soft mutation.
The particle is standard in Aelya: a gceud! Say! a
dtolt! a meth!
> I think this makes for an interesting verbal system.
> means that I have to rework the pronominal system
> since it was based on clitics attached to the verb,
> when all
> verb forms ended in a vowel, which they don't
> anymore. Oh well.
Yeah, that's what i'm working with too. I'm
probably going to work with the similarities with the
Irish pronouns - -nye and mé for example. I tried
deriving with the clitic pronouns, but I'm not sure
whether I like it yet or not.
I like it, though I do think there should be some
more tense/moods: we'll have to decide together what
to do with the 'nai' subjunctive stuff, for example.
And a complete set of perfects (plu-, present, and
future would be nice - or not). We should compare with
our target langs (your's is Welsh/Brithenig, mine is
Irish) and see what we find.
I look forward to working on this together-ish!
Do You Yahoo!?
Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail