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Re: the verbal system of cein

From:Aidan Grey <frterminus@...>
Date:Sunday, July 1, 2001, 19:56
--- daniel andreasson <daniel.andreasson@...>
> * The verbal system of Cein * > > There are two types of verbs in Cein, basic and > derived. Basic verbs > are typically monosyllabic and end in a consonant. > Derived verbs > are typically disyllabic and end in a vowel. A > special type of > derived verbs are the ya-verbs, which in Quenya > ended in -ya.
In Aelya, the -ya verbs collapse with the basic verbs (I'm thinking of using strong and weak) after i affection and fricativization.
> The difference between the basic and the derived > verbs is seen in > the past tense where derived verbs get an _-an_ > suffix, and the > basic verbs get a nasal infix (or at least derived > from a nasal > infix).
Same as in Aelya, as it stands at the moment.
> There are five tenses, two of which are actually a > mix of a tense > and an aspect: present continuative, aorist, past, > perfect and > future. There's also an infinitive and an > imperative.
I'm planning on expanding the tense/mood inventory, and perhaps making Aelya a little more synthetic. Verb systems seem to be one of the most unstable forms historically (Romance language verbal systems differ greatly from their parent Latin, frex) and synthetic patterns are very common in the Celtic langs: Welsh: Dw i'n dysgu Cymraeg : I'm learning Welsh lit. I am at learning Welsh Irish: Tá mé ag obair : I'm working. lit. I am at working I also plan to do something with the tá/is or ser/estar distinction which I think is somewhat present in Quenya.
> BASIC DERIVED DERIVED -YA > ceth- 'say' toll- 'summon' meid- 'put an > end to' > > INF cedidd tyllidd meid(idd) > PRS cuid toll meid > AOR cyd tyll meid > PST centh tollan meidan > PRF eguid utull efuid > alt guididd dullidd fuididd > FUT cedow tullow meidow > alt lleil cedidd lleil tyllidd lleil meid(idd) > IMP cead toll meid > alt a gead a doll a feid
Ooo! I like the loss of the augment in the aletrnate perfect. Here are the corresponding Aelya forms: ceud 'say': pres: na e gceud (note: I made affection progressive in the first syllable) lit. be at saying simple present (aorist): cud past: ceund -or- bhan e gceud (bhan being the past of na, which may change) future: ceunda < OA ceundo -or- na e ndeilh ceud lit. be at going say perfect: geidhe tolt 'summon': pres: na e dtolt simple pres: toelt past: toltan -or- bhan e dtolt future: tolta -or- na e ndeilh tolt perfect: doelthe meth 'put an end to': pres: na e meth simple pres: meith past: mend -or- bhan e meth future: menda -or- na e ndeilh meth perfect: bheithe I still have a bunch of work to do on the synthetic forms, and what tenses would develop with Old Irish as a model...
> I'm not sure which of the two perfect tense > alternatives I > will choose. Both are equally possible (from > _equeetie_). > Perhaps I could use one for the perfect and the > other one may > have developed into a pluperfect. What do you think?
I like the divergence. I would go with the augmented form as the pluperfect, but it's purely an aesthetic opinion with no basis other than it sounds right to me.
> Sometimes a > particle _a_ (pronounced [@]) is added in front of > the verb > causing soft mutation.
The particle is standard in Aelya: a gceud! Say! a dtolt! a meth!
> I think this makes for an interesting verbal system. > This > means that I have to rework the pronominal system > entirely > since it was based on clitics attached to the verb, > when all > verb forms ended in a vowel, which they don't > anymore. Oh well.
Yeah, that's what i'm working with too. I'm probably going to work with the similarities with the Irish pronouns - -nye and mé for example. I tried deriving with the clitic pronouns, but I'm not sure whether I like it yet or not. I like it, though I do think there should be some more tense/moods: we'll have to decide together what to do with the 'nai' subjunctive stuff, for example. And a complete set of perfects (plu-, present, and future would be nice - or not). We should compare with our target langs (your's is Welsh/Brithenig, mine is Irish) and see what we find. I look forward to working on this together-ish! Aidan __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail


Aidan Grey <frterminus@...>Cookbook
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