Re: Saalangal stuff

Teoh wrote:
>Hmm, interesting. Colloquial Malay seems to love pronouns, but of course,
>this is the "rough talk" among buddies or "lower class" people. The use of
>"aku" and "kau" (short for "engkau"), which are considered rather rude
>forms of the pronoun, are actually quite favored among buddies and groups
>of young people.
Same in Indonesian, at least according to the book.  I had little
opportunity to get that familiar with anyone.  Teenagers, probably after
their first year of English, were using "yu".  (Being the only Westerner at
the school, and one of the few in a rather sizeable town, was always a bit
disconcerting.)

>The slightly more polite forms "saya" and "awak" are the common, everyday,
>acceptable terms, which won't be regarded as rude if you use it with
>elders, etc..
Older "hamba" ('slave') too, but no longer used.  I've always understood the
original meaning of "saya" was 'slave', but that's unconfirmed.

>Now of course, there's also a third level of politeness which is "palace
>talk" -- "baginda" for the 2nd person pronoun (or was that 3rd??), and I
>forget what the other pronouns are...
Indo. dictionary gives "his majesty" for baginda, but of course it could be
used for 2nd pers. too. We learned "saudara" as a polite 2nd person, sort of
'vous, Usted' type thing-- but it was already passé, except in its original
meaning 'sibling, brother, sister'.  One had to make do with bapak, pak,
ibu, bu or titles.  For deferential 3d pers. "beliau" is still used.

>(Shows how much it's actually used
>among the common people, hehe.) So far, I've only ever heard these terms
>used in literature or in formal news broadcasts involving top levels of
>government.
Does Malaysian use 'anda'-- a really mealy-mouthed polite 2nd pers.?
Immediately you heard it, you knew an official pronouncement of some sort
was coming.....or an ad.

>As regards to avoiding pronouns... I'm not sure if that's a solely
>Indonesian thing, or just the fact that pronouns tend to be dropped more
>frequently than in English, when they are understood to be there.

Without getting into stereotypes, it seems to characterize Asian cultures
that are, or were, quite stratified.