Re: Conlang T Shirt - Quenya

FFlores writes:
 > Brook Conner <nellardo@...> wrote:
 >=20
 > > Lambelya nai hiruva sinomesse.
 > >=20
 > >  > interlinear
 > >=20
 > > Lambe-lya : Tongue-your
 > >=20
 > > nai hiruva : may it be found
 > >=20
 > > sinome-sse : here-(locative decl.)
 >=20
 > You probably know more about this than me, but I don't see

I would not so presume..... but on with the show....

 > a passive voice in _hiruva_; it's 'will find', not
 > 'will be found'; cf. LotR, _Farewell to L=F3rien_,
 >=20
 >         nai elye hiruva
 >         'may you find (it)'

"Nai" is the subjunctive of "na-" (to be). Using "nai" and the future
tense is idiomatic for a wish or blessing kind of statement. FtL has
the same kind of "wishing" sense, despite the lack of a "wishing" word=20=

in the English translation (aside from "may", which often has kind of
prayerful overtones when used this way).

I put the "it" in the interlinear to try to make it clear what the
thing that the speaker is wishing will be found (your
language). Perhaps that was not so successful. :-/

 > I think the passive voice is made with 'to be' + pple in Quenya,
 > as in English. The past pple of the root HIR- 'find' could be
 > _h=EDrie_, while 'to be' is _n=E1_ or _na_ (cf. FtL _s=ED vanwa na_
 > 'now (it) is lost').

I gathered from earlier discussions on conlang, that the intent of the=20=

original phrase - "Your language goes here" - was not about passive
voice so much as more of a subjunctive mood of desiring something that=20=

is not the case. Most viewers (as opposed to wearers) would not have a=20=

language they created upon the shirt (I won't :-).  The shirt is
saying, "If you (viewer) were a conlanger, your own invented language
might be found on this shirt." My reading of the lojban version (with
"zvacu'i" for "is:at-possible") tended to confirm this.

If I've misinterpreted the original statement, let me know.

 > As for _sinomesse_, couldn't it just _sinome_? Why would you
 > use the locative case for a locative adverb? Cf. the words of
 > King Elessar, _Sinome maruvan..._ 'Here I will live...' (TTT,
 > _The Steward and the King_).

To distinguish it from the possible ablative and allative
interpretations of the sentence:

May it be that your language is found out of here (ablative)

May it be that your language is found into/upon here (allative)

I interpret both the allative and ablative of Quenya as having a sense
of motion intrinsic to them (even "falmalinnar" - "upon the foaming
waves" from "Namarie" has a distinct motion sense to it).  In
contrast, my own idiolect of English has no motion sense (despite
"goes") for "Your language goes here" - goes is used in the sense of
"belongs", allowing "found" in a subjunctive form.


Brook
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