Re: OT: reality (wasRe: Atlantean)

Quoting Gary Shannon <fiziwig@...>:

> --- Adam Walker <carrajena@...> wrote:
> > --- Gary Shannon <fiziwig@...> wrote:
> > > --- John Cowan <cowan@...> wrote:
> > > > Andreas Johansson scripsit:
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > To me the most plausible explanation is that
> > Plato
> > > > made the story up
> > > > in order to make a point.
> > >
> > > Ah, but the important question is not "Is it
> > true?"
> > > but rather "Is it fun to believe?"
> > >
> > > If it's fun to believe then who cares if it's true
> > > or
> > > not?
> > >
> > > --gary
> >
> > My skin just crawls when I hear statements like
> > that.
> > I sometimes wonder if I'm the only human being who
> > still believes that objective truth exists.  And
> > that
> > knowing and believing the real truth not just the
> > convinient or happy truth is important.
> >
> > Adam
>
> There are certain relativistic frames in which it can
> be said that two events took place, but it cannot be
> objectively determined which event took place first.
> There are certain quantum theoretic frames in which it
> is equally difficult to determine the "objective"
> reality of the situation.
True but irrelevant. Quantum mechanics and Relativity are still very much
about objective truth and stuff that is emphatically not a matter of point of
view. Special Relativity has quite aptly been defined as the science of that
which is not relative.

[snip]
> As a
> quantum-realtivistic-Buddhist-transcendental-idealist,
> I defy you to prove the existence of objective
> reality.  Great minds have tried and failed.  In the
> final analysis one can only choose whether to _assume_
> objective reality exists or to _assume_ that it does
> not.
I'm still waiting for a counterargument to that objective truth must exist,
because the truth of the statement "there is no objective truth" is a logical
impossibility. Now, I do not know exactly what you mean by objective reality -
 - I tend operate on one by which objective reality exists - so I'm rather at
a disadvantage at attack the denial of it, but it would seem that the
existence of objective truth would be a problem for said denial.

And someone who defines his world-view as 'relativistic' _ought_ to believe in
objective reality.

                                                           Andreas