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R: Re: Conorthography (phonology)

From:Mangiat <mangiat@...>
Date:Thursday, November 23, 2000, 9:06
Jesse S. Bangs wrote:

> Mangiat sikayal: > > Excellent work, Luca! I'm impressed:
> > lots of snipping > > > > 2) /v/ in intervocalic position, if derived from Latin /b/, is rarely > > pronounced (80% no, 20%yes), while if derived from Latin /p/ it is
> > pronounced, but it may not: al vureva /al vure.a/ (he wanted) pR VOLEBA > > generating a hiatus; cavèj /ka'vEj/ ( pR CAPILLU. There are some > > words with a stable form (as cavèj always pronounced /ka'vEj/), but
> > are a lot with alternate forms, such as imperfect tense's > > endings -evi, -evat, -eva etc. (how is this called? I remember someone > > mentioned this phenomenon some weeks ago speaking about English
> > The phenomenon is called free alternation. WRT to the sounds themselves, > even though they're phonetically identical if only one can be dropped, > they are probably different phonemes. Therefore it might be wise to > spell them differently. Perhaps you can use <w> for the [v] that may be > dropped, and <v> for the [v] that cannot.
The problem is that the variation is very subtle. One can pronounce the /v/ whenever he wants, but if he does it in some words, it could sound strange. I could delete the <v> in words whose pronounciation is 90% without /v/, but there's always the 10%... an exemple? Nevuud is always /ne.u:t/ (pR NEPOTE), but pronouncing it /nevu:t/ would not be an error, especially if you think it is from a previous intervocalic /p/, which is generally retained... it would only mean that you have a somehow swiss pronounciation (the dialect spoken is the southern part of Tessin is very similar). Luca
> > The problems come with /ts/ and /dz/. They're not allophones: panza
> > and ranza /randza/ show this alternance. Locatelli, in his Vocabulary
and in
> > his 'Piccola Grammatica del Dialetto Comasco' decided to write /ts/ with
> > and /dz/ with <z acute> (the Polish letter), whereas he used <s> for /s/
> > <s acute> for /z/. The inconvenient is that this system, a very good
> > uses two letters no typewriter here around used to have and which
> > lack in every normal computer. My idea is this: > > > > /ts/ rendered as <zz> when intervocalic (as we used <ss> for
> > /s/) and as <tz> if in a cluster. > > /dz/ rendered as <z> everywhere. > > I think this is a good solution. > > > > > OK, next time the vowels. Tell me what ya think. > > > > Luca > > > > Jesse S. Bangs > "It is of the new things that men tire--of fashions and proposals and > improvements and change. It is the old things that startle and > intoxicate. It is the old things that are young." > -G.K. Chesterton _The Napoleon of Notting Hill_