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CONLANG Digest (#2001-97)

From:Muke Tever <alrivera@...>
Date:Saturday, April 7, 2001, 5:30
> From: Barry Garcia <Barry_Garcia@...> > Subject: Re: Blandness (was: Uusisuom's influences) > > CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU writes: > >My book on Turkish says dotless i is "i as in nation," which I find > >utterly helpful, since for me "ti" goes to [S] and "on" to [@n]. <sigh> > > The World's Writing Systems book I have says that the turkish dotless I is > "close, back, unrounded" vowel. In the kirschenbaum system, it's /u-/. > Apparently SAMPA doesnt have a way of representing it.
In X-SAMPA it's /M/.
> From: David Peterson <DigitalScream@...> > Subject: Re: VW (was: Digest 2 Apr) > > In a message dated 4/5/01 10:08:44 PM, Barry_Garcia@MONTEREY.EDU writes: > > << I frequently hear English speakers where I live pronounce Cesar Chavez' > > name as /ShavEz/, when the ch should be /tS/. >> > > That's because that's the way Mexican Spanish speakers pronounce his
> when they're speaking English--and only when they're speaking English.
> tested my grandmother for this. It's incomprehensible to me.
That's because Spanish <ch> isn't /tS/ as it is in English. It's more palatal, and doesn't have the /t/ in it at all--English /S/ really is the closest thing to Spanish /cC/. My [puertorriqueño] dad has the opposite problem, he usually has <ch> for English <sh> (although I'm not sure at the moment which <ch> it is he has).
> From: D Tse <exponent@...> > Subject: Re: Blandness (was: Uusisuom's influences) > > There's the horribly useful IPA Help program at but its 50 Mb... > It has samples of ... perhaps 97% of the IPA sounds.
The ones it doesn't have are [s_>] (ejective alveolar fricative) [@\] (backwards e--close-mid central unrounded?) [3\] (closed epsilon--open-mid central rounded?) At least, those are the greyed-out ones with symbols but no sounds.
> From: "Pavel A. da Mek" <pavel.adamek@...> > Subject: auxlang for "foreign telephone operators" > > > He says elsewhere that the number system is so great, > > that especially people who work with "foreign telephone operators" would > > find it very useful; this leads me to believe he is from another planet, > > where they have magic lossless phones > > Well, imagine following language: >
> > Looks like nonsens? > But this is real-world auxlang used in many countries. > The "foreign telephone operators" will understand, > if you will carefully pronounce vowels with these formants:
[...] Oh, well *that*, yes. But somehow I think that doesn't count ;)
> From: Mangiat <mangiat@...> > Subject: R: Re: R: Re: Digest 2 Apr > > > > /l/ > /r/ is another type of rothacism, attested inRumanian, i.e., and > > > in the variety of Italian spoken in Rome: > > > > > > 'il lato' (the side) is realized as /er 'lado/ > > > > This looks like dissimilation to me, although it is rhotic. Does this > > occur when the next word begins with something other than another /l/? > > Yup. > > 'il meglio' (the best) /er mejo/
Spanish when spoken will often do the opposite, i.e. /r/ > /l/. Just a couple days ago I re-recognized it, hearing my grandmother mention her <cartera> [cal'tera].
> From: Frank George Valoczy <valoczy@...> > Subject: Re: auxlang for "foreign telephone operators" > > Hmm...were there only 2 of us who (almost) immediately recognised the > second auxlang for the sounds produced by a touch-tone phone?
I saw it. I figured it had to be read from the keypad from the vocabulary given, and the frequencies were a hint that human throats probably weren't involved...
> From: Henrik Theiling <theiling@...> > Subject: Re: Blandness (was: Uusisuom's influences) > > > << There's the horribly useful IPA Help program at but its 50
> > It has samples of ... perhaps 97% of the IPA sounds. >> > > > > WOW!!! I hope they have it for Mac... <gulp> > > Nope. And neither for Unix. ~~:(
Isn't there a website 'version' of the program with realaudio files?
> >> From: Oskar Gudlaugsson <hr_oskar@...> > > > >SAMPA [Q] is open back rounded --- don't you mean [A] there? > > Mm, no; 'pot', 'lot', 'rather' all have [Q], AFAIK. [A] is rare or non- > existent in English dialects (right?).
/pat/, /lat/, /r{D@`/. Personally I'm not sure whether I have /a/ or /A/ there. I can't tell the difference between these sound files, and I never was good at placing vowels myself. *Muke! --


The Gray Wizard <dbell@...>ADMIN: A request (was RE: CONLANG Digest (#2001-97)