Re: What is it we are saying in our languages?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Carsten Becker" <carbeck@...>
To: <CONLANG@...>
Sent: Monday, July 03, 2006 7:36 AM
Subject: Re: What is it we are saying in our languages?


> Hi,
>
> First off, Sally -- could you please elaborate on what you
> mean by saying "original" again?
Hi, Carsten.  Let's see, here are some snippets from my original message:

"what I want to pose in this thread is the extent to which we focus on
*language* as creative or *message* that is creative.  Or both.  In other
words, what are we saying that is unique in our languages, and how do our
languages help us *say* something that the world can hear--
or deem unique?"

> All languages differ from
> one another. Is that what makes them unique? The way of
> expressing things?
I'm trying to get away from discussions of innovative structure to focus on
innovative expression and idea, so mode of expression is relevant.  I'm
responding as I said to the "tinkering vs. creativity" thread.  Did you read
any of that?  The focus there was on stretching the limits of what language
can do and say--structurally, I think.  Given that we develop such an
innovative language, or not, what it is we ultimately say or write in said
languages that is creative or poetic, or noteworthy, perhaps because of
structure but perhaps even more because of lexicon and idiom?  "How do our
languages help us *say* something that the world can hear or deem unique?"

I sincerely wanted to know what people do with their languages (on websites
or in private).

>  Do you mean the different attitudes of
> the speakers of a language and how they express them in
> language, or even, how viewpoints change with the use of
> different languages, among these our conlangs? I don't
> understand how else messages from different languages can be
> more "original" than others. Sure, there are shades of
> meaning lost in translation. But still I don't fully
> understand what you mean by the "originality of a message".
Maybe you're putting too much emphasis on your word "original."  My word was
"unique" in the strict sense.  I.e., getting away from translation games and
relays to express yourself in your culture and your language.  You've
answered my question in your response to David, below.

> I guess I cannot contribute anything new with Ayeri, at
> least not yet. Hrm, sometimes I wonder whether I'm thinking
> just too analytical, whether I'm too young or too stupid to
> understand (read: have no feeling for) philosophical musings
Not at all, Carsten!

>
> From: "David J. Peterson" <dedalvs@...>
> Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 10:29 PM
>
>> So just because it doesn't come up on conlang doesn't mean
>> that conlangers aren't doing it--it just means they're not
>> talking about it...on conlang.  ;)
>
> There was a thread called "What do you write in your
> conlang?" on the ZBB recently. Well, the only things I have
> written in Ayeri so far are translations of the "typical"
> translation exercises as well as of some poems and songs I
> like. The translations were made from English, German or
> French. I also have some very private journal entries in
> Ayeri. The problem here is that I'm not fluent in Ayeri, so
> I tend to think of a sentence in German first and then
> translate it into Ayeri with the help of my dictionary.
That's what I mean.  I have some of the same problem, and I'm trying to
correct that.  To think of the Teonaht expression first, and not write it in
English first, is a goal of mine.  I wonder what would happen to my writing
if I were to start it in a language of my own creation, and conversely, what
would happen to Teonaht.  How would it develop, how would I be able to say
things that are uniquely expressive in that language only?  The process is
starting, since I've worked on it for so long, but it has a long way to go.

Sally

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