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Re: GROUPLANG: Phonetics

From:Carlos Thompson <cthompso@...>
Date:Thursday, October 15, 1998, 13:02
De: Pablo Flores <fflores@...>
Fecha: Mi=E9rcoles 14 de Octubre de 1998 19:27

>Carlos Thompson wrote: >> >>The phonetics, as propossed this far, is: >> >>basic sounds: >>vouels: /a/, /e/, /i/, /o/, /u/, /y/ >>consonants: >>/p/ /b/ /t/ /d/ /k/ /g/ /q/ /q_voiced/ >>/f/ /v/ /s/ /z/ /x/ /G/ /h/ >> /m/ /n/ /N/ >> /w/ /r/ /l/ /j/ > >Actually, we've discussed to drop /h/, mainly because it didn't >quite fit into the system. We could do with /x/, variants [x] and [h].
Yes, I remember.
>Dropping <h> would also allow us to use all the h-digraphs without >problems. Not only <kh>, <gh>, <qh> (which are invalid clusters, tho) >but also <nh> for /N/. If we keep /h/ =3D <h>, we'll have to write <ng> >or there'll be an ambiguity. > >Note that <ng> for /N/ is not ambiguous; /ng/ could be written <ngg>, >because syllable-final nasals assimilate to the next place of >articulation.
How about an N ending root combined by a velar inleaded suffix or composi= te root: lon + ka =3D> lonka ['lON.ka] or longka (explicit orthography) lon + ge =3D> longe ['] or longge. but _longe_ could suggest ['loN.Ne] With the nh diagraph, _longe_ would no need explicit orthography _lonhge_ after ng are two different sounds and asimilation wouls lead /ng/ to be pronounced [Ng]
>>With the following orthography: all those sounds above, with lowercase >>letters in IPA will use the IPA value, but "x": a, b, d, e, f, g, i, j,=
>>l, m, n, o, p, q, r, s, t, u, v, w, y, z >> >>The other sounds are: /x/ as <kh> or <x>, /G/ as <gh>, /q_voiced/ as <q=
h> or
>><qg>, /N/ as <nh> or <ng>, /h_voiced/ > >Let's decide about <h> and then I'll tell you :-) > >>No values this far for <c> and <x>. > ><c> could be /q_voiced/, but it's not very intuitive... ><x> could be /x/, but I think it's better to keep <kh> and <gh> >(they are more "mnemonic", and symmetrical).
Maybe <c> and <x> could be only used in borrowings with no phonetical val= ue en grouplang or as alternative writing for /q_voiced/ and /x/
>[snip] >>Because of the VV posibility in a syllabe, in composing (or in adding >>affixes) there could rise V-V combinations. The posibilities are: >> >>Avoid V-V combinations forcing C and F in every root. >>Asimilate V-V as a VV diphthong (even ae, ao, oe, etc.) >>Use something (both phonetically and orthographic to mark an hiatus, ma=
ybe a
>>dieresis or an apostrophe) >>insert a sound, either a glide or a glotal stop. >> >>I vote for a glide in root combination and asimilation fo V-V into VV f=
>>affixes. > >I vote for a glide in root combination AND for affixes. >I don't think we should force the roots to have any special form. > >--Pablo Flores
I think affixes and possible roots too should have a flexible forms, and,= if we stick with voice harmony, affixes and roots should not differe in voic= ing (at least in the places harmony will take place). With your first proposals:
> frar- "dog" > kjak- "bite, bit" > wiv- "red" > s- "I, me, first person" > qaun- "hard, strong" > Case markers: > a- agent > pe- patient > di- predicate > ys- undergoer > mu- modifier > Other markers: > -o, -i (dummy gender markers) > -ul past tense > -e present tense
and a root like an- the prefixed root would be: with glide: ajan- or awan- pejan- dijan- ysan- muwan- with asimilated diphthong: aan- [a?an] or [a:n] or [Aan] or [a&n] or what ever pean- [p&:n] or [pean] or ? dian- [djan] or [dIan] ysan- muan- [mwan] or [mUan] (note [ea] [Aa] or [Ia] should be diphthongs, maybe not easy ones) with flexible prefixes ajan- or aran- or anan- pan- or pjan- dan- or djan- ysan- man- or mwan- with glottal stops: [a'?an], [pe'?an], [dI'?an], [y'san] and [mU'?an] Endings fo a root like po-: with glides: powo powi powul powe with assimilated diphtong poo [po:] or [pOo] or ['po.?o] poi [pOI] or [pOj] poul [pOUl] or [pOwl] poe [pOe] with glotal stops poo ['po.?o] poi ['po.?I] poul ['po.?Ul] poe ['po.?e] with flexible suffixes: powo or pou /pow/ or pow poi /poj/ or poji ['po.i] or ['po.ji] poul or powl poje with flexible root: (equal /w/ glide). As I said I vote for flexible affixes, some flexible roots, and glide for all other V-V combinations and unstressed <y> =3D [@] for Stop-C combinat= ions. -- Carlos Th