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Re: How to Make Chicken Cacciatore (was: phonetics by guesswork)

From:Tristan Mc Leay <kesuari@...>
Date:Saturday, July 24, 2004, 12:11
J. 'Mach' Wust wrote:

>On Thu, 22 Jul 2004 19:48:47 +1000, Tristan Mc Leay <kesuari@...> >wrote: > > > >>The original IPA vowels, though, were defined based on >>the cardinal vowels, which were in turn based on the French vowels IIRC. >>Since then, additional (central) vowels have been added. I have no idea >>when [&] (a-e ligature), [I] or [U] (small caps I and U) were added, but >>I suppose it was early on for English.) >> >> > >According to this, you'd have to learn a number of different languages (in >their most conservative pronunciations!) until you'd master the IPA vowels, >at least French and English. > >
No-no, I meant in the first place. I imagine that French vowels aren't exactly standardised. That's just my understanding of why they chose to have a symbol for [e], [E] and [i_"] ([I]), but not for the sound in between [e] and [E] or [a_"].
>This way of defining the sounds seems to be the most practicable to me. >Though it'd be kind of third-rate. > >======================================== > >On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 00:13:49 +0100, And Rosta <a.rosta@...> wrote: > > > >>I presume the CVs ought to be definable in terms of relative formant >>values, though if such a definition exists it is surprisingly elusive. >> >> > >The [s]cientific approach. My few experience with these kind of analysis tells >me that it'd be extremely difficult to find the discriminations that are >even difficult to hear, e.g. between [2] and [Y]. Also a third-rate. > >
Well, whether a distinction is easy to hear or not depends on your experiences. I find [e] and [I] pretty obvious, but [I] and [i] is beyond me... (If I talk of an /i(:)/ in my speech, it almost certainly represents a diphthong starting somewhere between [i] and [@] and ending somewhere round [i].) I don't imagine simply rounding the elements ruins the human ear! (Babies can distinguish thousands of sounds. One aspect of learning your first language(s) is *losing* the ability to distinguish between them!) -- | Tristan. | To be nobody-but-yourself in a world | kesuari@yahoo!.com.au | which is doing its best to, night and day, | | to make you everybody else--- | | means to fight the hardest battle | | which any human being can fight; | | and never stop fighting. | | --- E. E. Cummings, "A Miscellany" | | | | In the fight between you and the world, | | back the world. | | --- Franz Kafka, | | "RS's 1974 Expectation of Days"