Re: How to Make Chicken Cacciatore (was: phonetics by guesswork)
| From: | Tristan Mc Leay <kesuari@...> |
|---|
| Date: | Saturday, July 17, 2004, 3:32 |
|---|
Philippe Caquant wrote:
> --- Christophe Grandsire > > > (BTW, French would
> rather pronounce "Bach" as
>
>>"Bak",
>>
>>>>at least when talking about Jean-Sebastien, but
>>
>>one
>>
>>>>should definitely NOT ask a Frenchman how to
>>
>>pronounce
>>
>>>>German words. Especially if he is an
>>
>>international
>>
>>>>journalist.)
>>>>
>>
>>I hope you've realised that with this sentence,
>>you've just explained
>>*exactly* why describing the sounds of a language in
>>terms of the sounds of
>>another language is a bad idea in general :) .
>>
>
> Not at all. The problem is not that there may be
> different way for Germans to pronounce "Bach". The
> problem comes from the fact that French journalists
> are illiterate, and haven't the faintest idea about
> whatever possible pronunciation for "Bach". Or maybe
> they have no ears at all. This is something completely
> different.
Oh hardly. Are you seriously suggestion that French journalists (and by
extension, everyone), should learn every single language there is,
perfectly? Languages *are not their speciality*. Surely you aren't
claiming to know absolutely everything known about linguistics, all
languages, astrophysics, cognitive science, biology, theology, current
affairs and computers. Hell, if my experiences are anything to go by,
you don't even know what 'cognitive science' is!
Not only that, but last I checked, French doesn't have a /x/ phoneme. Of
course, I don't know anything about French and the phoneme that ought to
be spelt <ghqcwh> (/R/) may be devoiced in some contexts, but that
phoneme is still relatively new to French, and anyway, [X] is no closer
to [x] than [k] is (a German might---couldn't say for certain, totally
conjecture---think you're saying Barr or Back instead of Bach).
What do you think of English 'Paris' /p&r@s/ or 'Venice' instead of the
proper French or Italian names? Latin and English 'Copernicus' instead
of _Kopernik_? Languages have a habit of nativising foreign words---even
names. Sometimes, as in Venice, the spelling changes. Sometimes, as in
Copernicus (English) or Paris, the spelling doesn't change. Neither
English nor French have (or at the time of boring didn't have) /x/ or
/X/ or anything closer to [x] than /k/, so we pronounce 'Bach' with a
/k/. I _really_ doubt that J. S. (or C. P. E. or any other) is rolling
in his grave every time a foreigner mispronounces his name.
French journos aren't illiterate. They're just French.
--
| Tristan. | To be nobody-but-yourself in a world
| kesuari@yahoo!.com.au | which is doing its best to, night and day,
| | to make you everybody else---
| | means to fight the hardest battle
| | which any human being can fight;
| | and never stop fighting.
| | --- E. E. Cummings, "A Miscellany"
| |
| | In the fight between you and the world,
| | back the world.
| | --- Franz Kafka,
| | "RS's 1974 Expectation of Days"
Replies